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Teomachia» Forums » General

Subject: What's the point of NOT using a Last Stand card? rss

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Denis Maddalena
United States
Nottingham
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There doesn't appear to be any negative to using a Last Stand, and a really loose trigger. There's this weird little section in the rules, "If you want to call, and you don't have the right tokens..." which introduces a whole pile of problems.

What specifically does "right tokens" mean? Because as written, here are some issues:

It's entirely possible to be unable to match the current bid due to weird volumes of certain followers. Say I'm down to a handful of 2 point followers (let's say eight of them) and I need to bid 7 points more to call. This would trigger Last Stand. I'd get to keep my eight dudes and the bank would fund a Priest and Initiate for me.

Hell, it says we need to equal stakes to call... is this purely a number value, or quantity and type of follower instead? Someone throws their Prophet in, can I call with five Initiates? Or if I have no Prophet, can this trigger a Last Stand? Seems like the values is a thing, but that could be erroneously falling into poker chip mentality. There's no clarification or specifics on this I can find, but again, important in relation to triggering the Last Stand.

It gives no other requirements on use. It SOUNDS like an "all in", but you don't need to dump the rest of your followers into the bid to make it happen... and once you hit a Last Stand situation, you don't need to spend your own guys on the hand anymore. In the "need 7 more to call" situation above, it seems silly I wouldn't need to spend at least one of my own guys since I'm going to pull an Initiate and Priest from the bank.

You don't lose the game if you lose a Last Stand, either. No negative repercussions at all. "My brothers, we stand and die here together!" <five minutes later> "...and here! ... and here!" I assume these guys also have multiple best friends.

Is this as intended? Was there something lost in translation?
 
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Bob Boberson

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This is exactly what is different about this game than standard poker. You have to match the stake with the exact same combination of followers. Two initiates are not equal to one priest both in total value and follower type. More importantly, while two priests sre equal in value to one prophet, you cannot match the a stake of one prophet with two priests. Last stand is not an advantage. It is a game mechanic that allows you to stay in a hand you want to play when you don't have the combination of followers to match the stake. If the reason you don't have the right combination is because you have put all of your followers in the stake, you will lose if you don't win the hand.
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Denis Maddalena
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Right... but it also screws the bluffing element, as if you hit the Last Stand trigger, you have no reason NOT to roll with it unless, for some reason, you want to raise with your own dudes. I guess that's a bluff in itself, but feels really bizarre, to have no downside. But, if each type is indeed distinct and can't be matched by value alone, i suppose a simple "all in" would be terrible since you'd likely be at a battle disadvantage as well.

Anywho, it should have just been called "heroic stand" or something like that.
 
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