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Smash Up» Forums » Variants

Subject: Raistlin's tweaks (covers ALL Smash Up! expansion sets) rss

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Raistlin
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Here are my tweaks for the game, to improve balance... and not so good factions.
My purpose is to have no tiers, with ALL factions strong enough to grant fun during play.


NOTE: I will update this post periodically.



ALIENS (DOWNGRADE)

Beam Up: can return to hand only another player's minion (still good, but can't abuse the Invader combo)

DINOSAURS

King Rex: added "Destroy a minion." (I hate a box without text and Dinosaurs need some help)
Howl: changed into "Play on a Base. Talent: Each of your minions here gains +1 power until the end of your turn."

NINJAS (CLARIFICATIONS and a minor tweak)

Ninja Acolyte: "Special" changed with "Talent"
Way of Deception: added "Destroy a minion there." at the bottom of the original text
Infiltrate: "Ongoing" changed with "Talent"

PIRATES

Saucy Wench: changed to "You may destroy a minion of power 3 or less on this base. Ongoing: After this minion is moved to a base, choose another player's minion there. It gets -2 power until the end of the turn." (good synergy with all the movement abilities of the faction and with the tweaked Dinghy)
Pirate King: Pirate King moves "a minion you control" instead of only himself
Swashbuckling: added "Special: Before a base scores, you may play this card."
Cannon: changed to "All of one player's minions on a base where you have a minion get -2 power until the end of the turn. Play an extra action." (the deck loses a distruction effect but gains a card that comboes with Saucy Wench and, mostly, with Broadside for a massive destruction)
Dinghy: added "Play an extra action." (comboes with Saucy Wench and Broadside)

ROBOTS (DOWNGRADE)

Zapbot: changed to "You may play an extra non-Zapbot minion of power 2 or less." (some less extra minion plays help to rebalance the faction)
Tech Center: added a limit of max 3 cards drawn

TRICKSTERS

Gnome: changed in "You may destroy a minion on this base with power less than the number of minions you control to play an extra minion." (a removal that synergizes also with auto-Gremlin destruction)
Pay the Piper: added "Draw 2 cards."
Hideout: added "Draw 2 cards."
Mark of Sleep: changed into "Special: Play when an opponent plays an action that directly affects a single minion. You choose another minion to be affected." (this not only may bounce an affect, but it synergizes greatly with Brownie and - harder but possible - Gremlin abilities, choosing them as targets. This would be better as a 2x card to give better consistency to the deck)

WIZARDS (CLARIFICATIONS)

Archmage: "Ongoing" changed with "Talent"
Sacrifice: "Choose one of your minions. Destroy that minion TO draw cards..." (to clarify no destruction = no draw)

ZOMBIES (DOWNGRADE)

Grave Digger: the card is placed on the top of the deck instead of hand (this should slow them a bit... like zombies must be: slow! The tweak comboes also with other factions' cards revealing/drawing the first card on the deck)
Grave Robbing: same thing as for Grave Digger, the card is placed on the top of the deck

BEAR CAVALRY

Bear Rides You: changed to "One of your minions gains +2 power until the end of the turn. You may move that minion to another base. Play one extra action." (the deck was lacking a card synergizing with Cub Scouts)

GHOSTS

Ghost: me too I changed its ability into a Talent. A great change
Make Contact: changed into "You may play this card if you have two or fewer cards in your hand..."
The Dead Rise: changed into "Discard up to 4 cards. Play up to 2 extra minions from your discard pile."

KILLER PLANTS

Sprout: "You may destroy this card at the start of your turn to search..." (I changed it more for the fact that I hate the combo with Uberserum or other similar cards)

STEAMPUNKS: /

ELDER THINGS (CLARIFICATIONS)

Shoggoth: final text portion "Destroy a minion here belonging to each other player who does not do so."
Elder Thing: changed into "TO play destroy two of your other minions..." to force the destruction

INNSMOUTH

The Locals: text portion changed into "Put any The Locals revealed on any bases." (so they enter play directly - 'put' word prevents the ability to trigger again)
Spreading the Word: added "Draw 2 cards." before its normal text

MINIONS OF CTHULHU

Servitor of Cthulhu: added the "to" to force the Servitor's destruction
Cthulhu's Chosen: same thing here, changed into "If you do this minion gets +2 power" so now it forces the Madness draw
Madness Unleashed: changed into "Draw up to 3 Madness cards. For each one drawn, you may draw a card and destroy a minion" (the card you want to draw for Cthulhu-rage-mass-destruction)
It Begins Again: changed into "Place up to 3 Madness cards from your hand into another player's hand. Place this card on the bottom of your deck intead of your discard pile." (a powered-up, one-shot version of Star-Spawn effect, in line with the theme and a great Madness removal. Placing it on the bottom of the deck avoids recursions)
Whispers in Darkness: changed the text portion "Draw a Madness card." into "Draw 2 cards." (in my opinion the deck needs more free actions to get rid of the ton of Madness it generates, so this 2x card now help in that way)

MISKATONIC UNIVERSITY

Librarian: slightly changed into "Talent: Discard a Madness card. If you do, draw a card and play an extra minion." (now it is more powerful)
That's So Crazy...: gives +2 power to minions instead of +1
...It Just Might Work: gives +2 power to minions instead of +1 (the card is too weak in my opinion and needs a boost)

CYBORG APES (DOWNGRADE)

Flying Monkey: instead of destroyed, the card is placed on the bottom of the deck to avoid the dreaded combo with Cyberback

SHAPESHIFTERS: /

SUPER SPIES

Operative: changed into "Reveal the top 2 cards of each player's deck. ..." (more useful)
Discards Are Forever: changed into "All players reveal cards from their decks until they reveal a minion. Play up to 2 revealed minions as extra minions and treat them as yours. Discard all other cards." (very powerful, but Spies need something like this; maybe it needs the "Place this card on the bottom of your deck intead of your discard pile" as an additional restriction)
From Q With Love: changed to "Draw 3 cards. Play one extra action."

TIME TRAVELLERS

Time Raider: changed to "Talent: Place a card from your discard pile on the bottom of our deck. Draw a card. Only use one Time Raider's ability each turn." (now she's very good)
1.21 Gigawatts: changed into "Play up to two minions with power 2 or less as extra minions. You may shuffle your deck." (now this synergizes with Jumpers; I maintained the shuffle effect)
Time is Fleeting: changed into "Draw up to 2 cards from the bottom of your deck. Place this card on the bottom of your deck instead of your discard pile." (synergizes with Time Raiders' new draw ability and comboes with Time Walk)
Wormhole: changed into "Special: Play after a base scores. Place your minions there into your hand instead of placing them in the discard pile." (a very powerful effect)

GIANT ANTS

Worker: enters play with three +1 power counters instead of two (adds some more punch for the faction)
Killer Queen: changed to "Ongoing: After you play a minion, place a +1 power counter on this minion and that minion." (now she's very strong... but is the boss after all!)
Who Wants To Live Forever: changed to "Remove up to three +1 power counters from your minions. Draw two cards for each counter removed."
A Kind of Magic: changed to "Choose a minion you control. Double the number of power counters on that minion." (this card was useless as it was, now is a powerful tool that also offers some play choices)

MAD SCIENTISTS (DOWNGRADE)

Uber Serum: I setted a limit of a maximum of 3 power counters on this card because I don't like the way it comboes with some other cards - First Mate mostly

VAMPIRES

Heavy Drinker: changed into "You may destroy one of your minions to place a +1 power counter on this minion and destroy a minion of power 3 or less here." (now HDrinker becomes very useful, but at a cost and comboes better with Opportunist and The Count; anyway the ability is optional as before)
The Count: changed into "Ongoing: After a player's minion is destroyed..."
Opportunist: changed into "Ongoing: After a player's minion is destroyed..."
Cull the Weak: for each minion discarded adds two +1 power counters instead of one
Buffet: places two +1 power counters instead of one
Mad Monster Party: places power counters on minions that DOES have one (the deck focuses on putting counters on minions, so now the card has more synergy and more targets)
Dinner Date: now destroys a minion of power 3 or less

WEREWOLVES

Frenzy: "One of your minions gains +2 power until the end of the turn. Play one Extra action." (Andre's suggestion is perfect here, it gives very good synergies with other cards and a little more punch for the faction)

FAIRIES

Leaf Armor: adds +2 power intead of +1 (a little more punch for the faction)

KITTY CATS

Queen Fluffy: takes control of minions of power 2 or less instead of 3 or less (too much board control vs some factions as it was)
Invisible Bicycle: changed to "Destroy one of your minions. Play an extra action." (changed mostly to compensate Queen Fluffy's downgrade)

MITHYC HORSES (DOWNGRADE)

Super Future Space Armor Power: adds only +1 to minions instead of +2 (the deck is strong and this card was a bit too much)

PRINCESSES

Woodland Helpers: changed into "Search your deck for a minion and reveal it to all players. Place it into your hand and shuffle your deck." (a powerful tool not only to find the right minion at the right time, but also to help the lack of minions the deck has)
Skillet: destroys a minion of power 3 or less instead of 2 or less
Heirloom: added "Draw a card."

GEEKS (DOWNGRADE)

Control Minion: removed the first sentence; now it can only be played as a Special Action

MUNCHKIN SMASH UP - Important: I play with the variant "Players draw Treasure cards only when they destroy monsters. Getting Loot rules do not apply.". My tweaks to Munchkin factions take into account this variant.

CLERICS

Turner: second portion of the text changed into "OR play a random minion from your discard pile as an extra minion."
Word of Recall: changed into: "Choose an action from each other player's discard pile. You may play up to 2 of them as extra actions. Return the others."
Join the Club: changed into "Discard the top 3 cards of your deck. Choose a base. All minions there get +1 power until the end of the turn for each minion discarded in this way." (now the card is stronger and also synergizes with Cardinal, Collection Plates and the new Turner's ability).

Whack-A-Ghoul (Base): changed to "After the 1st undead monster is placed here..." (Clerics have Turners which have a bonus ability on undead, so why their base should work against them?!?)

DWARVES

Gem Grabber: added "Draw a Treasure card." before its original text

ELVES

Flower Child: takes control of a minion of power 4 or less instead of 3 or less
Lord of the Prance: controller draws 2 cards instead of 1
Dancing Root: draw 2 cards instead of 1
Trade: completely changed following Andre's suggestion "Choose an action on a minion. Place a +1 power counter on that minion and transfer the action to one of your minions."
Pumping Iron: changed to "Choose another player. That player chooses a minion and places a +1 power counter on it. Place three +1 power counters on one of your minions."

HALFLINGS: /

MAGES

Scroll Shuffler: changed to "Special: If an ability you control causes you to discard this card from your hand, draw a card." (the previous ability was quite annoying; now it synergizes with the discard mechanics)
Mass Summoning: changed to "Choose a base and play up to 2 monsters there. You control them until the end of the turn."
Charm: changed to "Take control of a monster OR take control of a non-monster minion of power 3 or less until the end of the turn."
Portal to Beyond: changed to "Play a monster on a base OR place a non-monster minion of power 3 or less on the top of its owner's deck."

ORCS

Hammer Slammer: destroys a minion of 3 power instead of 2
Crush: changed into "Choose a base and a player who has fewer minions than you. ..." (for a better destruction effect)

THIEVES

Pickpocket: changed into "If there is another player's minion here, draw a treasure card." (stronger ability and thematic)
Secret Stash: changed into "Play on a base. Ongoing: When this base scores, draw 2 treasure cards." (I play without the chaotic 'Getting Loot' rule)
Potion Bandolier: changed to "This card is considered a treasure card. Play on a minion. Ongoing: This minion has +2 power." (this card was one of the worst of the deck in my opinion - discarding a treasure to pump a minion +3 was an horrible effect; now it offers interesting playing choices)
Swipe: added "Play one extra action." after the original text (the simple trade for a treasure card was a bit weak)

WARRIORS: /

DRAGONS: /

MYTHIC GREEKS (DOWNGRADE)

Spartan: changed to "Place a +1 power counter on this minion after the second time you play an action on your turn." (this limits the power increase)
Jason: gives the bonus only to minions on its base (now he stays with - and power ups - his crew only)

SHARKS: /

SUPER HEROES

My Only Weakness!: added a buff "Play on a minion. Ongoing: This minion's abilities are cancelled and it has -5 power (minimum power 0)." (a little more punch for the faction)

TORNADOS

Trade Winds: "Choose a minion you control and a minion you don't control. Exchange control of those minions." (very strong, to test, but in my opinion Tornados need something like this; also synergizes with the new Ignobles faction)

ASTROKNIGHTS (DOWNGRADE)

Block the Probe: adds +1 power instead of +2

Maybe something more is needed to balance the faction, because it can generate absurd power-combos. Maybe the Ghost Knight ability should be changed into a +1 power instead of +2.

CHANGERBOTS: /

IGNOBLES

Sneaky Squire: changed into "You may give control of this minion to another player to draw a card and play an extra minion." (the faction needs more draw in my opinion; now the effect is similar to Repaying Debts)
Hostage Exchange: changed to "Give another player control of one of your minions to take control of one of their minions and play an extra action." (some more boost to the faction)
Red Birthday Party: changed into "Destroy a minion you own but you don't control to destroy all minions of a faction controlled by a player on that same base." (very strong removal effect)
Fate of the Favorites: changed to "Destroy a minion of power 4 or less, then destroy a minion of power 3 or less. Place this card on the bottom of your deck instead of your discard pile." (another strong removal to compensate minions disadvantage)
Out of Sight: changed to "Each player returns a minion they own to their hand. Play an extra minion. Special: Before a base scores, you may play this card." (now the card does minion advantage/manipulation and has a strong surprise effect)

STAR ROAMERS (DOWNGRADE)

Medical Officer: "Ongoing: Once per turn, if another one of your minions would be destroyed, you may return it to its owner's hand instead." (slight but effective change to reduce the big anti-destruction abilities of the deck; after all a medic can take care of one person at a time!)
Science Officer: "Talent: Return one of your minions of power 4 or less to its owner's hand. Play an extra minion with a different name. Cancel that minion's ability until the end of the turn." (as it was this minion was broken; now at least you move the 4-power minion, play one extra but you can't abuse the enter-play abilities. Halflings docet )
Ship's Captain: now he may search any minion as before or search and play a minion of power 2 or less (very appropriate with the image of the card)
Port Me Up: replaced "AFTER" with "BEFORE" in the original text. Now the player have a critical choice: if the minion scores the base, that minion is lost; or he can save the minion before the scoring. In this way the card retains most of its potential but cannot accomplish both targets (scoring AND minion saving)
Hyperspeed 10: changed to "Choose a base. Move all your minions from there to a single other base." (as it was this card was an overpowered bomb... and thematically the ship transports only its crew around)
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Andre Oliveira
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About the new set:
ASTROKNIGHTS feel to power comboing, is that it? Well they have above 30 power when you factor their minion abilities. Their actions seem less powerful than dinosaurs. Are they outperforming them?

Space Prince seems the big abuser of the deck.
Alien Guru is a bit mythic greek-ish.


CHANGERBOTS
Almost all their morphs really should have ".. and loses its Ongoing ability and all other abilities until the start of your next turn." don't you agree?

Bruiser and Huffie are really much better than most similar minions, that's the issue I see with them.

Maybe their minons could have a "tap/summon sickness" mechanic - like mtg. Basically they can't use their talent while tapped, and come into play tapped, untapping at the start of your turns. (their actions could come tapped as well)


IGNOBLES
Your sneaky squire is a super "fan". Their basic use is helping to close a base quickly (and triggering betrails) - way better than elves' iron pumping

Hostage Exchange is quite powerful (and the faction doesn't seem to need extra plays as it is) - tough this opens up some good combos... I'd rather have it like your TradeWinds.

Red Birthday Party would have enough buff if it affected just that opponent's minions. A single card destroying multiple 5p minions is a bit too much. Maybe all minion from it's faction would be quite fitting.

Fate of the Favorites seem out of place. unrestricted destruction?

Out of sight becomes too chaotic - you could restrict to choosing a base (the scored base in case of special). Better yet, make opponents only able to choose a minion they control, while you choose one you own. same could go for "Fate of the Favorites". Should it read owner's hand?


STAR ROAMERS
Ship's Captain maybe nerfing the extra play to 2 power is enough. I mean he's comparable to both Plants and shape shifter leaders.
Port Me Up might use a "Play an extra minion with a different name on that base. Cancel the played minion's ability until the end of the turn." I think having this as an special is central to the deck.
Maybe making Mass Teleport return any number of your minions to your hand would be more fitting (i.e. removing the alien's gimmick of returning opponent's minions from the faction altoguether). Maybe restricted to a base.
 
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Raistlin
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desocupado wrote:
ASTROKNIGHTS


Yes, they are absolutely power-combo oriented. But VERY power! On base scoring they start the show. The worst part is the very high surprise factor... sometimes you are relaxed about a base with 4-6 power total and then, suddenly, they smash it in their next turn! Too much.

Their deck is unique in its design and for now I cannot identify a real abuser in the deck. All are quite ok, taken alone, but together they create very strong synergies. I'm going very cautiously for now on tweaking them; I have to play them more to better focus their key minions.


desocupado wrote:
CHANGERBOTS


Right now Changerbots haven't caused me too much trouble, so for now I let them as they are.


desocupado wrote:

IGNOBLES
Out of sight becomes too chaotic - you could restrict to choosing a base (the scored base in case of special). Better yet, make opponents only able to choose a minion they control, while you choose one you own. same could go for "Fate of the Favorites". Should it read owner's hand?


I'm happy with the changes made to Ignobles. Now they strike hard, giving a real betray feeling to the faction (as they should have been created since the start). Maybe something could prove to be excessive (Fate of the Favorites mostly), but that's not a problem - I'll simply return back to the original cards. For now they work fine, time and matchups will tell.


desocupado wrote:

STAR ROAMERS
Ship's Captain maybe nerfing the extra play to 2 power is enough. I mean he's comparable to both Plants and shape shifter leaders.
Port Me Up might use a "Play an extra minion with a different name on that base. Cancel the played minion's ability until the end of the turn." I think having this as an special is central to the deck.
Maybe making Mass Teleport return any number of your minions to your hand would be more fitting (i.e. removing the alien's gimmick of returning opponent's minions from the faction altoguether). Maybe restricted to a base.


Yes, I agree on Ship's Captain, I think it's perfect as a tweak.
About Port Me Up and all the other return-to-hand effects, the real problem is that they becomes de facto movement effects WITH extra minion play in most cases. AND with the option to abuse of enter-play actions, for the right minions. They are a nightmare. In my opinion the changes to Science Officer and Medical Officer are a basic must to lower their incredible defenses and enter-play action abuse.
 
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Andre Oliveira
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Since you asked to take a look at those factions, here it goes:

RaistlinMajere wrote:
PIRATES

Saucy Wench: changed to "Yoy may destroy a minion of power 3 or less on this base. Talent: After this minion is moved to a base, choose a minion there. It gets -2 power until the end of the turn." (good synergy with all the movement abilities of the faction and with the tweaked Dinghy)
Pirate King: Pirate King moves "a minion you control" instead of himself
Swashbuckling: added "Special: Before a base scores, you may play this card."
Dinghy: added "Play an extra action." (comboes with Saucy Wench)

The problem with Saucy Wench is that power reduction isn't the deck's theme. It's also a bit too much text for a single card (2 completely different abilities on the minion).

If Dinghy moved just 1 minion I'd say that's a good change.
The whole combo is taking too many cards when you think about it (play an action - dinghy, on a minion, to activate that minion's talent - after that you could throw a destruction action - this is only possible because dinghy has the free play)



RaistlinMajere wrote:
TRICKSTERS

Gnome: changed in "You may destroy a minion on this base with power less than the number of minions you control to play an extra minion." (a removal that synergizes also with auto-Gremlin destruction)
Pay the Piper: added "Draw 2 cards."
Hideout: added "Draw 2 cards."
Mark of Sleep: changed into "Special: Play when an opponent plays an action that directly affects a single minion. You choose another minion to be affected." (this not only may bounce an affect, but it synergizes greatly with Brownie and - harder but possible - Gremlin abilities, choosing them as targets. This would be better as a 2x card to give better consistency to the deck)

Not a fan of gnome's extra minion (I'd say the boost of accounting all your minion is plentyful - after all the faction has 2 enshrounding mists)
Pay the Piper and Hideout feel a bit odd wih the extra cards out of nowhere (it also makes wizard's Mystic Studies seems really bad by comparison - M.S. is a cool, even if quite basic card)
Mark of Sleep seems cool in theory - but it is too powerful - consider this, most people hate geek's cancellation (control minion replaces their would be 5p minion) this thing is twice worse than the action counters.
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Raistlin
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desocupado wrote:

The problem with Saucy Wench is that power reduction isn't the deck's theme.


Yes, but many factions have additional 'quite-out of faction' effects (just to remember some of them: Astroknights have one single card adding power counters, Killer Plants have two cards that give -1 to minions, also Sharks have one card that give -2 to a minion).
I think that most important is to maximize faction-mechanics to give them a unique feeling. With all that movement Pirates need minions with on-move abilities and effects that help to maximize their destruction - in my opinion they have too many 2-power destruction, sometimes useless against some factions with big minions; that's because I added the -2 effect - now destruction effects can hit also 4 power minios.
Maybe the deck should need a heavy rework, but I don't like complete reworks... I try to maintain as more as possible the original design if I can.


desocupado wrote:
TRICKSTERS


That's because of Enshrouding Mists that I added the extra minion play to Gnome: extra minions are already part of the deck mechanic. The deck simply lacks a draw engine, so I put the draw-2 on two cards. I agree, those draws are not so well implemented in the theme.
Mark of Sleep is without doubt strong. But is a single card and those damn Brownie need cards that enable their abilities to trigger, because opponents will never target them (as they are they could be reworded with "This minion is not affected by other players' actions.", because the effect is the same).
 
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Andre Oliveira
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For those reasons I changed saucy wentch (extra punch for movement), brownie (never used ability), gremlin, pay the piper (needed draw) the way I did.

For instance imperial Dragon ability would be great for pay the piper.

It's also a good idea to keep pirates and sharks as different as possible.
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Raistlin
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desocupado wrote:

Red Birthday Party would have enough buff if it affected just that opponent's minions. A single card destroying multiple 5p minions is a bit too much. Maybe all minion from it's faction would be quite fitting.


I follow your suggestion here. I limited the destruction to all minions of a single faction.
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Raistlin
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desocupado wrote:

STAR ROAMERS

Port Me Up might use a "Play an extra minion with a different name on that base. Cancel the played minion's ability until the end of the turn." I think having this as an special is central to the deck.
Maybe making Mass Teleport return any number of your minions to your hand would be more fitting (i.e. removing the alien's gimmick of returning opponent's minions from the faction altoguether). Maybe restricted to a base.


Slightly changed this too. I simply replaced AFTER with BEFORE in the original text. Now you can save a minion, but you have to do it before the base scoring, so the minion cannot participate.
 
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Daniel F
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Interesting choices! I like a lot of these ideas!

To me it seems like you may have tweaked the factions a bit too much. Some factions (like vamps, time travelers, spies) definitely need the help, but some of this just seems unnecessary. Do Ninja need a buff? They're already pretty strong in my play group. Orcs, Ignobles, Ghosts, MoC, Miskatonic, and Bear Cav all seemed pretty decently balanced as well.

I guess it seems like your "target strength," so to speak, is a little too high. You could mess with the game less by shooting for a level where most of the factions don't need touched, and a few more need downgraded.

I'll reiterate that overall I think this is great--the above is just my opinion/preference!
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Raistlin
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Well Daniel, for me is a work in progress and also a fun hobby. I'm obsessed by balance in boardgaming eheh
I'd like a game where all factions could stand a chance by their own, without 'must' pairs or combos; so I started to tweak the most weak among them but also those a bit too strong.
Power creep is increasing in the last sets, so in my opinion something must be done to rebalance what is not.

Anyway when I see overpowered tweaks, I return to the original cards... or I change them.

As you say some factions are quite good as they are; some like Bear Cavalry, Ninjas, Wherewolves and others have been tweaked very softly (maybe a single card or two), just maybe to power up the faction a little bit, to give to it a little more synergy or to get rid of that damn useless card you find always in your hand during play.

Thank you for your comment anyway
 
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Clarince Edjure
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Would it be alright if I posted my thoughts on your tweaks?
 
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Raistlin
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Sure!
 
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Clarince Edjure
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K here are my thoughts on these tweaks and some of my own suggestions. Over all I love your spirit for it. I do think some are a bit over-board. Lets swing that pendulum back just a bit.

RaistlinMajere wrote:
Here are my tweaks for the game, to improve balance... and not so good factions.
My purpose is to have no tiers, with ALL factions strong enough to grant fun during play.


NOTE: I will update this post periodically.



ALIENS: /

DINOSAURS

King Rex: added "Destroy a minion." (I hate a box without text and Dinosaurs need some help)
Howl: changed into "Play on a Base. Talent: Each of your minions here gains +1 power until the end of your turn."


Definitely think that is too strong for King Rex. Perhaps giving him the "survival of the fittest" ability? I like the howl though. using that.

RaistlinMajere wrote:


NINJAS (CLARIFICATIONS and a minor tweak)

Ninja Acolyte: "Special" changed with "Talent"
Way of Deception: added "Destroy a minion there." at the bottom of the original text
Infiltrate: "Ongoing" changed with "Talent"

good clarifications, but after testing out these other fixes I think they work much better. The Way of Deception could use the ninja power 3 or less limit.
Here are the other changes I'd like to see.

Ninja Acolyte: "On your turn" changed with "Before this base scores"

Infiltrate: "Ongoing" changed with "Talent" and "ignore" changed with "cancel"

That way the ninjas always have sneaky plays as long as there is an acolyte on a base. But really isn't that over powered because only one can switch out per base breaking turn and the switch still reduces the over-all power gain by 2 so it isn't devastating. They require a strong paired faction though, cause they still aren't helpful in actually breaking bases. lol. They just like jumping in out of nowhere to win. sneaky fun.

Infiltrate would now take over a base. Allowing only the ninja player to make use of the many beneficial base abilities by canceling the base ability after they have played what they can using the talent. This replaces them being able to ignore the few negative bases that aren't triggered by other players, i.e. mushroom kingdom (ignoring the base's ability makes it so the ninja player can't move minions, but other people can still move the ninja player's minions).

RaistlinMajere wrote:

PIRATES

Saucy Wench: changed to "Yoy may destroy a minion of power 3 or less on this base. Talent: After this minion is moved to a base, choose a minion there. It gets -2 power until the end of the turn." (good synergy with all the movement abilities of the faction and with the tweaked Dinghy)
Pirate King: Pirate King moves "a minion you control" instead of only himself
Swashbuckling: added "Special: Before a base scores, you may play this card."
Cannon: changed to "All of one player's minions on a base where you have a minion get -2 power until the end of the turn. Play an extra action." (the deck loses a distruction effect but gains a card that comboes with Saucy Wench and, mostly, with Broadside for a massive destruction)
Dinghy: added "Play an extra action." (comboes with Saucy Wench)

that is a lot of change to this faction. I really dont think they need extra actions. and giving things -2 doesn't really make sense. Maybe with the Saucy Wench, but I really liked her having that ability to move someone else's minion to where she was. The cannon is meant to kill things.. and sink ships, not simply weaken. I like that the Pirate King barks orders though, that is a good one.

RaistlinMajere wrote:


ROBOTS (DOWNGRADE)

Zapbot: changed to "You may play an extra non-Zapbot minion of power 2 or less." (some less extra minion plays help to rebalance the faction)
Tech Center: added a limit of max 3 cards drawn


I don't know if I've seen the 4 zap bots all linked together in any games I've played. And honestly the tech center hasn't really been used for more then 2 or 3 cards much either. I then the real threat of these guys is having a nuke bot and Microbot alpha. I think they should have the Wizards down grade to all their non-microbot minions as well as the Microbot Alpha only "microboting" the minions at the base it is played.
The power loss helps some of their combos which would still be fun getting extra little minions, but it forces them to use their other extra plays from the microbots on whatever faction they get paired with (which I think makes more sense). It also makes them much more susceptible to moving factions as the moved minions don't contribute to the pending Alpha drop.
These guys are definitely over powered though and need some kind of fix.

RaistlinMajere wrote:


TRICKSTERS

Gnome: changed in "You may destroy a minion on this base with power less than the number of minions you control to play an extra minion." (a removal that synergizes also with auto-Gremlin destruction)
Pay the Piper: added "Draw 2 cards."
Hideout: added "Draw 2 cards."
Mark of Sleep: changed into "Special: Play when an opponent plays an action that directly affects a single minion. You choose another minion to be affected." (this not only may bounce an affect, but it synergizes greatly with Brownie and - harder but possible - Gremlin abilities, choosing them as targets. This would be better as a 2x card to give better consistency to the deck)

I definitely think some things need to be done for the tricksters, but I'm not sure I agree with these. Why would the gnome give an extra minion? I like that you are trying to make them have more synergy, but I don't think trying to synergize with their aspect of self destruction is the best strategy.

Adding some card draw would be great for these guys, but perhaps more tactfully. I like the idea of Pay the Piper having the Imperial Dragon effect. That feels more like a payment.

While I do like the idea of tricksters messing with targets, this doesn't fit with marking someone with "sleep". the way you worded it seems overpowered too. Could the tricksters make the ninjas destroy their own minion with Seeing Stars? Totally brings up the fear factor. I like it, but it is pretty drastic. Definitely think disenchant could be 1 card that destroys up to 2 actions (thank you power creep of faeries) or just making it one card, but giving the Brownies that ability as well as not being messed with. Either way opens up a card for another mark of sleep (or perhaps renaming the card to better fit the target switching effect, maybe "A Common Miss-Conception"?). -high five- think that's a winner.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

WIZARDS (CLARIFICATIONS)

Archmage: "Ongoing" changed with "Talent"
Sacrifice: "Choose one of your minions. Destroy that minion TO draw cards..." (to clarify no destruction = no draw)

Necessary

RaistlinMajere wrote:

ZOMBIES (DOWNGRADE)

Grave Digger: reduced to power 3 instead of 4
Grave Robbing: the card is placed on the top of the deck instead of hand (this should slow them a bit; also comboes with other factions' cards)

Another good one to try. Zombies are so strong.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

BEAR CAVALRY

Bear Rides You: changed to "One of your minions gains +2 power until the end of the turn. You may move that minion to another base. Play one extra action." (the deck was lacking a card synergizing with Cub Scouts)

would be nice, but bears don't play extra actions. they move things and kill things. I do think the polar commando is odd in this deck though. What if they could also talent move an opponents' minion away from their base? I don't know. Usually these guys are pretty good.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

GHOSTS

Ghost: me too I changed its ability into a Talent. A great change
Make Contact: changed into "You may play this card if you have two or fewer cards in your hand..."
The Dead Rise: changed into "Discard up to 4 cards. Play up to 2 extra minions from your discard pile."

Great change to ghost. makes her useful. Make contact is fine I guess to upgrade to their standard requirements. The Dead Rise is Way over powered. I think just making it less then or equal to would be sufficient.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

KILLER PLANTS

Sprout: "You may destroy this card at the start of your turn to search..." (I changed it more for the fact that I hate the combo with Uberserum or other similar cards)

another necessary tweek

RaistlinMajere wrote:

STEAMPUNKS: /



RaistlinMajere wrote:

ELDER THINGS (CLARIFICATIONS)

INNSMOUTH

MINIONS OF CTHULHU

MISKATONIC UNIVERSITY


Skipping these cause I haven't played them yet.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

CYBORG APES (DOWNGRADE)

Flying Monkey: instead of destroyed, the card is placed on the bottom of the deck to avoid the dreaded combo with Cyberback

not so sure about this one. that combo is scary, but it doesn't happen often enough for me to be worried about it. I'm more worried about Cyberevolution making their 2 a 6 all the time. I think that is the more overpoweredness. Even just bumping it down to a +2 makes me feel better.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

SHAPESHIFTERS: /

These guys could use the downgrade of "to". They need to actually loose something to go get that stinkin' mimic. Mainly "transmorgify" and "...really??"

RaistlinMajere wrote:

SUPER SPIES

Operative: changed into "Reveal the top 2 cards of each player's deck. ..." (more useful)
Discards Are Forever: changed into "All players reveal cards from their decks until they reveal a minion. Play up to 2 revealed minions as extra minions and treat them as yours. Discard all other cards." (very powerful, but Spies need something like this; maybe it needs the "Place this card on the bottom of your deck intead of your discard pile" as an additional restriction)
From Q With Love: changed to "Draw 3 cards. Play one extra action."

I like the operative, but the Discards are forever is too much. maybe just making it opponents?
From Q with love still needs to discard I think. otherwise it would be too strong. Adding an extra action sounds fitting though. What new gadget did Q give?

RaistlinMajere wrote:

TIME TRAVELERS

Time Raider: added "Draw a card." at the bottom of the original text (now she is very strong)
1.21 Gigawatts: changed into "Play up to two minions with power 2 or less as extra minions. You may shuffle your deck." (now this synergizes with Jumpers; I maintained the shuffle effect)
Time is Fleeting: changed into "Draw up to 2 cards from the bottom of your deck. Place this card on the bottom of your deck instead of your discard pile." (synergizes with Time Raiders' new draw ability and comboes with Time Walk)
Wormhole: changed into "Special: Play after a base scores. Place your minions there into your hand instead of placing them in the discard pile." (a very powerful effect I have to test)


Time Raider becomes a Time Horder. What about adding the "Draw a card" at the top of the original text? then its a on play draw that TT love to replay.
For 1.21 Gigawatts why not just add 1 extra minion play of power 2 or less. then its like 2 guys are showing up after using the power generated from a perfectly timed lightning strike.

I'm sorry, but nothing should allow you to replay time walk, otherwise your opponents will time walk to punch you in the face and rip your cards.

Time is Fleeting is such a strong card for getting back the bases that help you win the game. Great for any faction that has a base they love.

K so i got this idea for worm hole. hows about your minions end up everywhere. Target Opponent gets to choose one minion that goes to the discard (or just a random minion for the discard), you choose one that goes to your hand. Then the rest get lost into time and space and get shuffled back into your deck. Worm holes are dangerous and unpredictable. What do you guys think?

RaistlinMajere wrote:

GIANT ANTS

Worker: enters play with three +1 power counters instead of two (adds some more punch for the faction)
Killer Queen: changed to "Ongoing: After you play a minion, place a +1 power counter on this minion and that minion." (now she's very strong... but is the boss after all!)
Who Wants To Live Forever: changed to "Remove up to three +1 power counters from your minions. Draw two cards for each counter removed."
A Kind of Magic: changed to "Choose a minion you control. Double the number of power counters on that minion." (this card was useless as it was, now is a powerful tool that also offers some play choices)

Nooooooo! don't ruin the ant invasion! A kind of magic is one of their best cards! It starts their multi base breaking combo! -cough- anyway..
The extra worker is a simple boost, I don't think it fits quite right. It would be fitting that there are more workers though.. what if they generated more counters but at a really slow rate. like if the workers (+1 counters) are moved/removed from the worker minion card they regenerate the +1 counters?!Card could read
Place two +1 counters on this minion Ongoing: at the end of your turn if there are no +1 counters on this minion, place a +1 counter on this minion.
The queen is good, though I think it would be cool if she could transfer counters around. if she only grew counters for herself when minions were played (to avoid overpowering) then she could have a talent that moves +1 counters! card could read:

Ongoing: whenever you play a minion place a +1 counter on this minion. Talent: transfer one +1 counter among your minions.

That way more counters are getting moved. And it makes sense then to have the workers at the "hive" because then they help generate counters/ants that then move to help the invasion! what do you guys think?

Who wants to live forever is a little over powered if they can draw 6 cards for 3 counters. Drawing is kind of weird for them since they have no other plays, but I don't know what else that card name could suggest for an ability. what if it destroyed an opponents minion for counters? I don't know.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

MAD SCIENTISTS (DOWNGRADE)

Uber Serum: I setted a limit of a maximum of 3 power counters on this card because I don't like the way it comboes with some other cards - First Mate mostly

This could work.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

VAMPIRES

Heavy Drinker: changed into "You may destroy one of your minions to place a +1 power counter on this minion and destroy a minion of power 3 or less here." (now HDrinker becomes very useful, but at a cost and comboes better with Opportunist and The Count; anyway the ability is optional as before)
The Count: changed into "Ongoing: After a player's minion is destroyed..."
Opportunist: changed into "Ongoing: After a player's minion is destroyed..."
Cull the Weak: for each minion discarded adds two +1 power counters instead of one
Buffet: places two +1 power counters instead of one
Mad Monster Party: places power counters on minions that DOES have one (the deck focuses on putting counters on minions, so now the card has more synergy and more targets)
Dinner Date: now destroys a minion of power 3 or less

I like it all but the dinner date buff. Not sure that's needed because they mainly kill weak minions. cause they like easy targets. HD is a good exception cause he doesn't know when to quite.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

WEREWOLVES

Frenzy: "One of your minions gains +2 power until the end of the turn. Play one Extra action." (Andre's suggestion is perfect here, it gives very good synergies with other cards and a little more punch for the faction)

I would like to try this. The sharks have that other frenzy card that plays extra minions which could be interesting, but that's not a Werewolf thing. It is sad that they don't function much as a pack. Frenzy makes me think more death would be happening, so with this tweak and their destruction combo that definitely happens. I will try this.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

FAIRIES

Leaf Armor: adds +2 power intead of +1 (a little more punch for the faction)

This is leaf armor dude. it adds something, and blows a away. no punch needed. though I did like the idea of one of their base actions being able to move itself. that's kinda neat.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

KITTY CATS (DOWNGRADE)

Queen Fluffy: takes control of minions of power 2 or less instead of 3 or less (too much board control vs some factions as it was)


Because cats can be hard to use effectively I feel like downgrading this is just a hit to those weird.. I mean creative people that like to play these guys. Lets say this is a personal downgrade house rule for that one guy that wrecks your life with kittens. lol

RaistlinMajere wrote:

MITHYC HORSES: /

Clarification:
Rainbow: Change "If" with "After" and "have played" with "play"
only draws a card after you play a minion there. No cards are drawn for playing itself, or previously played minions. Otherwise its a built in moon touched without the need to be the biggest minion.

These guys are way too strong. they have extra minion plays like crazy and give extra power? its like a mini dino plants deck.. with moving...and card draw.
Biggest abusers. Encouragement Power x2 and Super Future Space Power
1 EP is okay, but 2 "mimic boss powers"? Too much.
SFSP meet old howl.. you only give +1 to minions with other minions. fixed.
The other encouragement power could be another teaching power, but that teaching power doesn't make sense thematically (pull a minion from the deck? this is where our education system has gone). How 'bout the card teaches a minion ability? Something like:

Play on a minion
Talent: Another of your minions at this base gains this minions ability until the start of your next turn.
or (for a longer lasting lesson)
Play on a minion
Ongoing: this minion gains the ability of another minion you control at this base.

Not sure how that'd work with sea star, probably just shouldn't work with on play abilities. These at least feel like teaching.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

PRINCESSES

Woodland Helpers: changed into "Search your deck for a minion and reveal it to all players. Place it into your hand and shuffle your deck." (a powerful tool not only to find the right minion at the right time, but also to help the lack of minions the deck has)
Skillet: destroys a minion of power 3 or less instead of 2 or less
Heirloom: added "Draw a card."

That's cool for woodland helpers that makes sense that they go get help. I could also see them bringing an Heirloom card from the discard or deck.
why does the Heirloom make you draw a card? (why does skillet make you draw a card?)
Please don't make Skillet better then ninja stars.. that's just embarrassing.

I don't know I guess heirlooms drawing cards is weird, but is a nice little help for these ladies. Because the minions are all bossy, their actions aren't supposed to be the creme-della-creme.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

GEEKS: /


RaistlinMajere wrote:

MUNCHKIN SMASH UP

CLERICS

DWARVES

ELVES

HALFLINGS: /

MAGES

ORCS

THIEVES

WARRIORS: /

Skipping munchkin because I haven't played it yet. It definitely looks like the clerics and elves need help though. gj.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

DRAGONS: /

MYTHIC GREEKS: /

K brace yourself... Mythic Greeks... are way Over Powered. Lets fix some things.
Main Abusers: Odysseus,Heracles, Jason, and Spartan.
This faction has 3 bosses, Odysseus being a bigger boss, with Heracles and Jason as extra bosses.
Any combination of these guys, including the spartans, makes any action op. and all of their actions are pretty good already. Literally, no down side to these guys except that they can't move. (which doesn't work thematically, really because all of them travel all over the place. Jason and the Argonauts are on a boat! But whatever.)The faction needs more of a down side.
Spartans become permanent 4's immediately, then continue to grow.
Heracles is probably the most balanced, but he's still got a boss status ability. the dude is essentially a 5 every turn with the opportunity to burst.
Jason is probably the next more balanced, but he essentially has a built in Howl (fixed) for every base. Still boss status.
Odysseus is an amped up version of the ant queen (fixed) and completely dwarfs the Herr Doktor. Its cool they went back to counters, which really helps the monster factions, but this is just insulting.
Over all I think the faction could use the Wizard minion strength downgrade as well as ability nerfs.

Spartan: Ongoing: After the first time you play an action this turn, this minion gains +1 power for each other spartan till the end of the turn.
Spartans need each other to be decent, and if you got the 3 you get the hundred (or +6 power for your first action) I'd be okay with their original ability if they started as a 1. then each counter could feel like another spartan which is cool. (alt ants)

Heracles: is okay if he starts as a 3.

Jason: Remove "choose a base" Change "there" to "here".
Stay with your own crew dude.

Odysseus: Almost want him to be a 3 as well. He would always start with at least 1 counter making him a 4 drop, but most likely he's played with favor of hermes. Now he's a 6 plus what ever other abilities trigger.

Essentially, reducing their base power makes them rely on actions/favor more. This seems like what their faction mechanic really is. What do you guys think?

RaistlinMajere wrote:

SHARKS: /

SUPER HEROES

My Only Weakness!: added a buff "Play on a minion. Ongoing: This minion's abilities are cancelled and it has -5 power (minimum power 0)." (a little more punch for the faction)

A little steep, but some -power seems appropriate.

RaistlinMajere wrote:

TORNADOS

Trade Winds: "Choose a minion you control and a minion you don't control. Exchange control of those minions." (very strong, to test, but in my opinion Tornados need something like this; also synergizes with the new Ignobles faction)

This is completely out of nowhere. Why would they take control? Why not just adjust the power requirement to 4? That way it could become another move a minion action if combo-ed with tornado which can just move back to where it was. lol.

Waiting to play the Cease and Desist expansion. So I can't comment yet.

Really liking your take on these tweaks. and that we can talk about house rules. I have now made a house rule list for future play. Thank you. Let me know what you guys think.

P.S. AEG guys if you read this I do apologize for wanting to make so many changes to cards you have probably spent a lot of time on, but it would be humble of you guys to admit that there are some problems and we would appreciate if you made an attempt to make some official tweaks. Thank you.
 
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Andre Oliveira
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13roke wrote:
several changes

Check this file that is derivative from this post
Might closer to the direction you seem to want. Several cards were worked in exactly the direction you pointed (or maybe is the other way around).

----

On factions:
Robots
Tech center was usually used like this in my circle: you play two weak minions on a turn (let's say a microbot and a another 1/2p minion) then you play 2-3 minion on the other turn and tech center - netting 4-5 cards.

The extra 2p minion play on zapbot seems designed for putting the microbots without extra plays (alpha, guardx2 and archieve) - given how 3 of those aren't good for power drop and how many cards we get from tech center, people end up chaining zapbots (bonus point if it has a fixer and a alpha in the chain) and not playing the less useful microbots.

Zombies
Their top 4 strongest card in order are:
1 they keep coming
2 tenacious z
3 grave digger
4 Grave robber
That being said, if you want to nerf them differently (from what I did on they keep coming) try:
Quote:
Grave Digger - returned minion power limited to 3

3 power limit is terrible for zombies since walker is weak and tenacious z doesn't need it - it's still quite useful for most partner factions (ninja aliens horses come to mind).
Putting a 3p limit on "they keep coming" would also work better than nerfing grave robbing (which the best use 95% of the time is to get "they keep coming" back, unless you are playing with something with too many extra minion plays).

Dinosaurs
As I've said before mandatory destruction on king rex make it worse, not better. His main use is power drop and minion destruction averts that. A simple fix for his empty card box is "Ongoing: If this is your only minion here, it gains +1 power" i.e. he howls by himself.
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Thank you Clarince for your comments!
Among your many suggestion/alternative tweaks, here are those I appreciated the most or I have something more to say:


13roke wrote:
PIRATES

that is a lot of change to this faction.


Yes, Pirates (and also Tricksters) do not satisfy me completely and they are some of the major works in progress. I'd like more synergy in their decks, also maintaining their original flavor. Suggestions are appreciated on these decks, but for now what I have seen around does not convince me. Waiting for the final twek for them!

About Tricksters, you say you don't think that the aspect of self destruction is the way to go; you maybe right, but Gremlins and Brownies ask something forcing the opponent to target them, something like my new Mark of Sleep. I know it is a strong, feared card, but gives sense to Gremlins and Brownies and keeps the 'trick' theme (ok, I agree with you that the sleep flavor is not related to the effect).
So in the end the way is: forcing effects on those two minions OR changing those minions' abilities. Andre opted for the (more drastic) second solution. I'm still trying the first (I do not like too much drastic play changes, when/if possible).


13roke wrote:
CYBORG APES (DOWNGRADE)

not so sure about this one. that combo is scary, but it doesn't happen often enough for me to be worried about it. I'm more worried about Cyberevolution making their 2 a 6 all the time. I think that is the more overpoweredness. Even just bumping it down to a +2 makes me feel better.


Yes, I tweaked Cyberevolution as a +2 since the beginning for so much time, but in the end I found more scary that damn Flying Monkey combo. Tweaking them both I think would have been too much, so I restored the original +3 to Cyberevolution.


13roke wrote:
SUPER SPIES

I like the operative, but the Discards are forever is too much. maybe just making it opponents?


I'll take this into consideration, seems a good suggestion.


13roke wrote:
TIME TRAVELERS

I'm sorry, but nothing should allow you to replay time walk, otherwise your opponents will time walk to punch you in the face and rip your cards.


Ahahahah that made me laugh alone as an idiot
Yes, draw from the bottom opens to some of the evilest plays ever (most of the strongest cards have the 'put on the bottom' restriction); anyway I'm trying that tweak and for now it was not so devastating - you have to draw the cards AND in the right order to accomplish the evil plan to replay them.

13roke wrote:
K so i got this idea for worm hole. hows about your minions end up everywhere. Target Opponent gets to choose one minion that goes to the discard (or just a random minion for the discard), you choose one that goes to your hand. Then the rest get lost into time and space and get shuffled back into your deck. Worm holes are dangerous and unpredictable. What do you guys think?


I think it maybe a good alternative effect.


13roke wrote:
GIANT ANTS

Nooooooo! don't ruin the ant invasion! A kind of magic is one of their best cards! It starts their multi base breaking combo!


I do not find the power counter transfer very useful.. it's too situational and the most of the time all those transfer cards stay dead in your hand. I opted for a more straightforward solution for this faction, simply enhancing their power. Now they play really better.
Andre opted for a more 'swarming' feeling, which I appreciate, but that requires too many drastic changes for my tastes.


13roke wrote:
VAMPIRES

I like it all but the dinner date buff. Not sure that's needed because they mainly kill weak minions. cause they like easy targets.


Yes, I know and I agree, the tweak was in doubt since the beginning. After some more tests maybe I'll return to the original card.


13roke wrote:
MITHYC HORSES: /

These guys are way too strong.


Mmm interesting. In my plays I did not find these overpowered. Very strong, yes, but never overpowered like Robots or Zombies. I'll play them more to better know them.


13roke wrote:
PRINCESSES

Please don't make Skillet better then ninja stars.. that's just embarrassing.


Ahahah yes, you are right I upped to 3 power the effect just to make the card more playable, giving more targets to it.

I added the draws to Heirlooms for the same reason: more deck cycling.


13roke wrote:
MYTHIC GREEKS: /

K brace yourself... Mythic Greeks... are way Over Powered.


Mmm, same thing as for the Mythic Horses, I didn't see them as overpowered for now - they're pretty new, and in my group we haven't played them too much for now.


13roke wrote:
TORNADOS

This is completely out of nowhere. Why would they take control? Why not just adjust the power requirement to 4?


I wanted some drastic power up for Tornados. I would have liked some strong destruction cards in the faction, but there are no cards names fitting it too much, so I opted for the minion exchange. Trade Winds was perfect for... the trade!


13roke wrote:
Really liking your take on these tweaks. and that we can talk about house rules. I have now made a house rule list for future play. Thank you. Let me know what you guys think.


Thank you very much! For me too is great talking about this game and some house rules to make it better. It's a great game!

I hope too AEG will read all of this and release something official to rebalance the game. What about a second Geeky Box with no bonus factions BUT a little (well, not so little!) deck of replacement/upgraded cards for all the factions needing them...? It would be fantastic!
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13roke wrote:

K brace yourself... Mythic Greeks... are way Over Powered. Lets fix some things.


After some other plays I followed your suggestion and tweaked them too. Your Jason tweak is good and I applied it; then I nerfed Spartans' ability - I opted for Deso's tweak, simple and effective.
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