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Ortus Regni» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rebellion solo variant questions rss

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Colin Taylor
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Hi,

I just got my new copy of Ortus Regni yesterday, and I was hoping to start with a solitaire game of Rebellion. But after giving the rules a quick look over, I am confused on a couple of things:

1. When the King draws a Champion card, it wants to attack an Earl, but it isn't specifically mentioned that the Champion is used in the attack. I assume it is intended to join in, but wanted to make sure.

2. When the King draws a Land card, it says "Attach the new Land card to the Palace, or with other Lands or Market Towns if available.". I'm not sure what that means. So is the idea that it will be placed with any fief already containing a Land/Town, and if none, then the Palace? If so, unless the Palace is destroyed, how does any other fief get a Land? Same goes for a Market Town.

3. When the King has no further Land/Castle cards to play, you ignore the drawn card. Does this mean the King essentially skips a turn?

4. Do the Land/Market Town cards actually do anything for the King? Does he get to take an Army card when placing a Land? Does it ever Recruit? If it does get Army cards from placing Land or Recruiting, how does it pick which cards to use in a Battle? It says the King uses "all his available forces", but I assume it still follows the Land rules for determining the maximum force?

5. If you Raid a King's fief, are there any instructions on which properties get destroyed (assuming some survive)?

6. If the King Raids you with a Prince/Vassal Lord, what Properties does he take, assuming more are destroyed than he is allowed to take? Can he take advantage of Cathedrals/Churches?

7. If the King Sieges, it says it wants to "Siege the Palace (or largest fief)." Which one is it?

8. Does a King's Sieged Palace go into its discard pile if destroyed? If so, does it get treated like a Castle if drawn again in future rounds? (actually, this is a question relevant to the normal game also. Under Sieges, it specifically mentions that Castles are discarded, but not Palaces).

9. For setting up the game, it appears the King AI does not count as a player (Towers in the solo game = 2, for example). How does this apply to the Vikings? Is the Viking army 2 cards in a solo game? Or 3?

10. If the Monk card is drawn, 2 cubes are added to the bag. Is the Monk card discarded, or left by the Viking deck, as would happen with a human player? I assume the former, but wanted to check.

I guess, looking back at my questions, I'm pretty confused.

Thanks,

Colin

 
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Matthew Berard
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Quote:

1. When the King draws a Champion card, it wants to attack an Earl, but it isn't specifically mentioned that the Champion is used in the attack. I assume it is intended to join in, but wanted to make sure.


The Champion does not join in. All the card it telling you is what action the King will take, in this case "Attack".

Quote:
2. When the King draws a Land card, it says "Attach the new Land card to the Palace, or with other Lands or Market Towns if available.". I'm not sure what that means. So is the idea that it will be placed with any fief already containing a Land/Town, and if none, then the Palace? If so, unless the Palace is destroyed, how does any other fief get a Land? Same goes for a Market Town.


You are correct in your thinking - the King focuses on one fief at a time to build up. So until the palace is destroyed no other fief gets anything, unless he steals some of your properties and you want to spread out his holdings (which is usually the case).

Quote:
3. When the King has no further Land/Castle cards to play, you ignore the drawn card. Does this mean the King essentially skips a turn?


Not sure if that was the intention, but that's how I've been playing it. Provides some much needed breathing room.

Quote:
4. Do the Land/Market Town cards actually do anything for the King? Does he get to take an Army card when placing a Land? Does it ever Recruit?


The King never recruits, but I interpreted the rule as whenever he places a land card, he gets the full benefit of that card (so 1 or 2 free units from the deck). This seemed to be implied from the last sentence of the "King's Royal Forces" section of the rules.

Quote:
5. If you Raid a King's fief, are there any instructions on which properties get destroyed (assuming some survive)?


The rule of thumb here is to do what is in the King's best interest at the moment.

Quote:
6. If the King Raids you, what Properties does he take?


None. The properties are discarded and you get to decide which ones based on how you assigned the damage.

Quote:
I guess, looking back at my questions, I'm pretty confused.

Thanks,

Colin



No worries. It can be a lot to take in all at once. Stick with it, though, and I'm sure you'll be fine. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!
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Colin Taylor
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Eraelan wrote:
Quote:

1. When the King draws a Champion card, it wants to attack an Earl, but it isn't specifically mentioned that the Champion is used in the attack. I assume it is intended to join in, but wanted to make sure.


The Champion does not join in. All the card it telling you is what action the King will take, in this case "Attack".


Fair enough. I think that could be made clearer, though.

Eraelan wrote:
Quote:
2. When the King draws a Land card, it says "Attach the new Land card to the Palace, or with other Lands or Market Towns if available.". I'm not sure what that means. So is the idea that it will be placed with any fief already containing a Land/Town, and if none, then the Palace? If so, unless the Palace is destroyed, how does any other fief get a Land? Same goes for a Market Town.


You are correct in your thinking - the King focuses on one fief at a time to build up. So until the palace is destroyed no other fief gets anything, unless he steals some of your properties and you want to spread out his holdings (which is usually the case).


OK, sounds good. Just a funny way of wording it.

Eraelan wrote:
Quote:
3. When the King has no further Land/Castle cards to play, you ignore the drawn card. Does this mean the King essentially skips a turn?


Not sure if that was the intention, but that's how I've been playing it. Provides some much needed breathing room.


Yeah, I just didn't know how to interpret "ignore". It could mean ignore the draw and draw again, or skip a turn.

Eraelan wrote:
Quote:
4. Do the Land/Market Town cards actually do anything for the King? Does he get to take an Army card when placing a Land? Does it ever Recruit?


The King never recruits, but I interpreted the rule as whenever he places a land card, he gets the full benefit of that card (so 1 or 2 free units from the deck). This seemed to be implied from the last sentence of the "King's Royal Forces" section of the rules.


Yes, you are probably right there. Would be good to mention that, though.

Eraelan wrote:
Quote:
5. If you Raid a King's fief, are there any instructions on which properties get destroyed (assuming some survive)?


The rule of thumb here is to do what is in the King's best interest at the moment.


OK.

Eraelan wrote:
Quote:
6. If the King Raids you, what Properties does he take?


None. The properties are discarded and you get to decide which ones based on how you assigned the damage.


I don't think that's the case. Under "Ransoms and Lords" it suggests it does take properties. Weird place to mention it, though, seeing as it doesn't concern either Ransoms or Lords.

Eraelan wrote:
Quote:
I guess, looking back at my questions, I'm pretty confused.

Thanks,

Colin



No worries. It can be a lot to take in all at once. Stick with it, though, and I'm sure you'll be fine. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!


I'm sure it's not that difficult to play, but the rules for the variant are not the clearest, IMO. Could use a good proofing and reorg to make it easier to follow. Maybe I'll take a stab at it for my own use.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Colin Taylor
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Actually, I added a couple more questions as you were replying. Specifically I added an extra question to #4 and added #7.

Colin
 
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Matthew Berard
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To your revised #4: I took the literal meaning of "all his available forces", and whenever he attacks/defends he uses everything. He usually has the land to support them, so I haven't given it much thought beyond that (but I've been playing with more straight up attack strategies than anything, and thus haven't tried stealing lands).

7: If you have a fief larger than your Palace (more attached properties), he'll focus on that one. If not, then he'll go for the Palace.

Ransoms and Lords: if memory serves, this section states the king will never ransom any of his nobles. He will accept bribes so you can keep your nobles participating in a battle should the combat resolution deck go against you ("Defending Wins" if you attacking and vice versa). In that case, you can choose which land(s) you give to the King to avoid discarding the noble(s).


You're right, though, the rules are a bit loose. It took me 2 or 3 games to really solidify how to (I?) play the King. Having the same rules that apply to you apply to him makes sense in regards to fielding forces (which I will take special notice of in my next play). Let me know if you have any other questions. It helps me to talk it out, too.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Eraelan wrote:
To your revised #4: I took the literal meaning of "all his available forces", and whenever he attacks/defends he uses everything. He usually has the land to support them, so I haven't given it much thought beyond that (but I've been playing with more straight up attack strategies than anything, and thus haven't tried stealing lands).


Ah, see I read "all available forces" as meaning he has to have the Land to support them, otherwise they would be unavailable. It doesn't have a specific exclusion to ignore the rule, so I suspect it applies. I could be wrong, though.

Eraelan wrote:
7: If you have a fief larger than your Palace (more attached properties), he'll focus on that one. If not, then he'll go for the Palace.


It would be easier to say "Sieges the largest fief, a fief with the Palace breaking ties".

Eraelan wrote:
Ransoms and Lords: if memory serves, this section states the king will never ransom any of his nobles. He will accept bribes so you can keep your nobles participating in a battle should the combat resolution deck go against you ("Defending Wins" if you attacking and vice versa). In that case, you can choose which land(s) you give to the King to avoid discarding the noble(s).


Ah, yes, you are right, that note is regarding any properties given to him through Ransom. But where does it say he doesn't Raid properties? I don't see any mention of what he does, so wouldn't that mean he takes something?


Eraelan wrote:
You're right, though, the rules are a bit loose. It took me 2 or 3 games to really solidify how to (I?) play the King. Having the same rules that apply to you apply to him makes sense in regards to fielding forces (which I will take special notice of in my next play). Let me know if you have any other questions. It helps me to talk it out, too.


I added an 8th question, regarding a destroyed Palace, and whether it returns to his deck. This is something I don't think is clear in the normal game either.

I haven't really read the normal game rules around the Political cards yet, so may have questions on that once I do. Loose rules are a pet peeve of mine, though, so I think I will have to rewrite them for my use. I'll forget between plays if I don't!

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Bill Koff
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Loose rules are a pet peeve of mine, though, so I think I will have to rewrite them for my use. I'll forget between plays if I don't!

Hey Colin, once you've done your rewrite it'd be great to post it in the Files section here. Just sayin' . . . whistle
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Colin Taylor
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spindoc wrote:
ColintheFlea wrote:
Loose rules are a pet peeve of mine, though, so I think I will have to rewrite them for my use. I'll forget between plays if I don't!

Hey Colin, once you've done your rewrite it'd be great to post it in the Files section here. Just sayin' . . . whistle


Of course! That's not a problem. It may have to wait a couple of weeks. I have friends visiting mid-week, so probably won't get to it before they arrive.

Colin
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Eraelan wrote:
Ransoms and Lords: if memory serves, this section states the king will never ransom any of his nobles. He will accept bribes so you can keep your nobles participating in a battle should the combat resolution deck go against you ("Defending Wins" if you attacking and vice versa). In that case, you can choose which land(s) you give to the King to avoid discarding the noble(s).


Ah, yes, you are right, that note is regarding any properties given to him through Ransom. But where does it say he doesn't Raid properties? I don't see any mention of what he does, so wouldn't that mean he takes something?




Not in this case: the only time the King actually steals something is if he played an Intrigue card. With a Raid attack, he is only going to destroy your properties. If I came across as implying he doesn't raid, I apologize.

As for the Palace - I've been playing that once it's been destroyed it's out of the game. The normal rules say to treat the Palace like a normal castle when destroyed, so it would be discarded. Since it isn't entirely clear what to do about the King's discarded properties, I put them back in to the tray (to be available for the next time a property card is drawn from his deck). There are no cards that call the Palace back into play specifically, so I've been saying it doesn't come back. I suppose that when it's discarded to the tray and a castle card is drown from the King's deck it could be put back on the table, but it's not something I'd thought too hard about, to be honest.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Eraelan wrote:
Not in this case: the only time the King actually steals something is if he played an Intrigue card. With a Raid attack, he is only going to destroy your properties. If I came across as implying he doesn't raid, I apologize.


I know he will Raid. What I am questioning is why, if he has a Prince/Vassal Lord, would he not take a Property he destroys? I don't see it mentioned, so assume he does.

Eraelan wrote:
As for the Palace - I've been playing that once it's been destroyed it's out of the game. The normal rules say to treat the Palace like a normal castle when destroyed, so it would be discarded. Since it isn't entirely clear what to do about the King's discarded properties, I put them back in to the tray (to be available for the next time a property card is drawn from his deck). There are no cards that call the Palace back into play specifically, so I've been saying it doesn't come back. I suppose that when it's discarded to the tray and a castle card is drown from the King's deck it could be put back on the table, but it's not something I'd thought too hard about, to be honest.


Fair enough.

Any idea on the size of the invading Viking Army? In solo, is it 2 or 3 cards? When setting up the game, the rules imply that the King AI does not count as a player (only 2 Towers), but does he count when determining the size of the Viking army?

Colin

ps - I've been thinking about how the game works, and I think I can come up with a solo variant for it. It's not dissimilar to Pax Porfiriana, and I made one for that. I don't see the hidden hand as a big issue, and it can be worked around. That way, you could try out various deck builds to play against.
 
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ColintheFlea wrote:

I know he will Raid. What I am questioning is why, if he has a Prince/Vassal Lord, would he not take a Property he destroys? I don't see it mentioned, so assume he does.


YIKES! I'm such a dullard. I completely misunderstood. My apologies. In this case, you would still follow the hierarchy outlined in the Intrigue section (Market/Land combo if both Prince and Vassal fielded). If that's not available, whatever would hurt you the most is what he takes (goes back to overall "best decision for the King" guildeline).


ColintheFlea wrote:

Any idea on the size of the invading Viking Army? In solo, is it 2 or 3 cards? When setting up the game, the rules imply that the King AI does not count as a player (only 2 Towers), but does he count when determining the size of the Viking army?


I've been playing that he counts for purposes of the Viking army. Apart from set up, I treat it like a two player game.

ColintheFlea wrote:

ps - I've been thinking about how the game works, and I think I can come up with a solo variant for it. It's not dissimilar to Pax Porfiriana, and I made one for that. I don't see the hidden hand as a big issue, and it can be worked around. That way, you could try out various deck builds to play against.


I'm certainly intrigued by this. I've been able to make the current ruleset work for me, but I'm more than open to trying something different. Let me know what you come up with: I'd be happy to give it a try.
 
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Colin Taylor
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Eraelan wrote:

YIKES! I'm such a dullard. I completely misunderstood. My apologies. In this case, you would still follow the hierarchy outlined in the Intrigue section (Market/Land combo if both Prince and Vassal fielded). If that's not available, whatever would hurt you the most is what he takes (goes back to overall "best decision for the King" guildeline).


Now it's my turn to be an idiot. What Intrigue section are you referring to? I see a section on what happens if you try to play Treachery or Intrigue on the King, but not the other way around. So, would he take a Church? Can he Intrigue a Mercenary?


Eraelan wrote:
I've been playing that he counts for purposes of the Viking army. Apart from set up, I treat it like a two player game.


Sounds fair enough, but I think that is something they need to fix on the website. It's not exactly clear.

Eraelan wrote:


I'm certainly intrigued by this. I've been able to make the current ruleset work for me, but I'm more than open to trying something different. Let me know what you come up with: I'd be happy to give it a try.


Well, there are more types of card, and how each cards works, than in Pax Porfiriana. But Pax has tons of card special effects to balance and consider. There, I just have a preference logic on what to play. Would be the same here, really. I suspect it would be easy to play, as the hands are not extensive, so there are only so many options each turn. I would likely use my usual approach to variants, i.e. try to use every normal rules if possible, and create difficulty by having others gang up on you. I'll try to make something without using the expansion first. May need to actually play it first! Although having said that, I only played half a game of Pax before creating my variant, and Phil Eklund added it to the Living Rules!

Colin
 
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Eraelan wrote:

YIKES! I'm such a dullard. I completely misunderstood. My apologies. In this case, you would still follow the hierarchy outlined in the Intrigue section (Market/Land combo if both Prince and Vassal fielded). If that's not available, whatever would hurt you the most is what he takes (goes back to overall "best decision for the King" guildeline).


Now it's my turn to be an idiot. What Intrigue section are you referring to? I see a section on what happens if you try to play Treachery or Intrigue on the King, but not the other way around. So, would he take a Church? Can he Intrigue a Mercenary?


I was referring to section where it outlines the effect of an Intrigue plays from the Kings deck -

Rebellion Rules wrote:

Intrigue - The King will first aim to Intrigue a Land Market Town combination Fief in the targeted Earldom. If that combo is not available the King will target: the Cathedral, then the Fief with the most Properties of any type (preferring one with the most Lands). Finally, if no Properties are available he will target a Mercenary, and as a last resort Army cards from that Earl’s Army card pool.


 
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Colin Taylor
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Eraelan wrote:

I was referring to section where it outlines the effect of an Intrigue plays from the Kings deck -

Rebellion Rules wrote:

Intrigue - The King will first aim to Intrigue a Land Market Town combination Fief in the targeted Earldom. If that combo is not available the King will target: the Cathedral, then the Fief with the most Properties of any type (preferring one with the most Lands). Finally, if no Properties are available he will target a Mercenary, and as a last resort Army cards from that Earl’s Army card pool.




Well, I found a big problem. I've been reading the rules off the website, and didn't even realize a pdf existed. Wouldn't you know it, but there are whole sections missing on the website, that are in the pdf! That's why I couldn't find it. There is literally no "When the King Uses Politics" section.

Oof.

Colin
 
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ColintheFlea wrote:
Eraelan wrote:

I was referring to section where it outlines the effect of an Intrigue plays from the Kings deck -

Rebellion Rules wrote:

Intrigue - The King will first aim to Intrigue a Land Market Town combination Fief in the targeted Earldom. If that combo is not available the King will target: the Cathedral, then the Fief with the most Properties of any type (preferring one with the most Lands). Finally, if no Properties are available he will target a Mercenary, and as a last resort Army cards from that Earl’s Army card pool.




Well, I found a big problem. I've been reading the rules off the website, and didn't even realize a pdf existed. Wouldn't you know it, but there are whole sections missing on the website, that are in the pdf! That's why I couldn't find it. There is literally no "When the King Uses Politics" section.

Oof.

Colin


Wow. I didn't even realize that. I can definitely see how that would lead to some confusion!
 
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Colin Taylor
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Eraelan wrote:
Wow. I didn't even realize that. I can definitely see how that would lead to some confusion!


Yep, you probably thought I was being a right idiot! I've GMed the designer, to let them know.

Colin
 
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Matthew Berard
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Haha, I wouldn't go that far. Good call on getting a hold of the designer. Here's hoping to a smoother game!
 
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