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Thunderbolt Apache Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cover Roll of 2-3 rss

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Aaron B
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The rule book states that for a cover roll of 2-3 all units within the same hex as an aircraft move to cover.

It does not seem to specify whether or not the word "Aircraft" includes enemy Helicopters. I think, it's supposed to refer to "my aircraft" as opposed to all aircraft.

I have been treating it as "All Aircraft" including enemy helos, but it doesn't feel like that was meant to be the intent and I'm considering backing off that to be just "My Aircraft" because if units are scrambling for cover because "My Aircraft" are in a hex, sure that makes sense. It doesn't seem like there would be the same "scramble for cover" motivation if a friendly enemy helo was in the same hex?

How do you all read that one?
 
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Gilles Desaintcannat
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I read it as my aircrafts incuding helicopters and not enemy helicopters.

Gilles
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Dan Beckler
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That cover roll indicates that any enemy units in the same hex as any player aircraft/helos will move to cover, if cover is available. This includes enemy helicopters moving into cover as well.

I believe that in the rules, enemy helicopters are always referred to as "helicopters" and are not referred to as "Aircraft" - only the player units seem to be labelled as "Aircraft".
 
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Barry Miller
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wedgeantilles1971 wrote:
I believe that in the rules, enemy helicopters are always referred to as "helicopters" and are not referred to as "Aircraft" - only the player units seem to be labelled as "Aircraft".

I'll second what Dan says, here. You'll note that in the rulebook, any noun or term which carries a game-specific definition is capitalized. For instance, the rule in question on page 13 writes the word aircraft as, "Aircraft", not "aircraft".

This capitalization informs us that the word is a game term, defined by the rules. (Though as with most DVG rulebooks, the actual definition must usually be inferred).

The same goes with, "Helicopter". Note that "Helicopter" is used only to define the enemy rotary wing aircraft as an "attack helicopter" (note the use of the lowercase "h" here, since its merely defining the game term. (Ref: pg 12) Then on page 16, you'll see that when the word, "helicopter" is used to reference the game term, it's capitalized.

You'll also see the lower case "helicopter" used to define the US helicopters on page 23, yet the game term used to identify these units is "Aircraft"

Bottom Line: If the word "Aircraft" used in the Enemy Cover Roll table was meant to also include the enemy Helicopters, it would've been written as a lowercase "aircraft". But since it's capitalized, then it's relating to a very specific game term.

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Aaron B
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Thanks for the feedback... hadn't occured to me to read it like a legal document with defined terms capitalized.
 
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Moe45673
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DVG rulebooks are intended to be read as technical documents. Unfortunately, their proofreading resources tend to be insufficient and intent must sometimes be inferred (hey, these technical documents are for playing games, not building nuclear warhead failsafes). Luckily, I rarely run across a case where the intent and my interpretation of it actually differ
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Gilles Desaintcannat
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I agree with you...i think we could say a lot of things about "art of writting rules" from the point of view of DVG lol !!!! Anyone ever played warfighter will understand me
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Barry Miller
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Though I give him kudos for the Gato Leader rulebook... it seems like he's been listening. The Gato Leader rulebook is much improved.

 
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Michael Andersch
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bgm1961 wrote:

Though I give him kudos for the Gato Leader rulebook... it seems like he's been listening. The Gato Leader rulebook is much improved.



It's not just copy/paste of 95% of the U-Boat-Leader rulebook (the way they did when "writing" the rules of Phantom Leader Deluxe - just copying the rulebook of Hornet Leader with all of its holes, uncertainties and ambiguities...)?
 
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Barry Miller
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I can't answer that as I've never seen the U-Boat Leader Rules (though I guess if I had the energy I could download them and compare, but I don't have that kind of energy now).

All I can say is, that after trying to play my first games of:
- Down in Flames
- Thunderbolt Apache Leader
- Fleet Commander Nimitz

I found the rulebook for Gato Leader to be a much improved product. The overall presentation was structured with headings and indentations that actually made sense (though there's still room for improvement here). The rules and examples provided clarity where in the other rulebooks there was none. And there were less holes than in other rulebooks.

My measure of holes is how many questions do I have after reading the entire rulebook before playing a game? Then how many questions do I (still) have after playing my first game?

Sometimes playing the game will in itself answer several of the former questions, while in most cases, the initial game will create several, if not many, questions of the latter. These questions are the "holes", and I have to admit that with Gato Leader, I experienced far fewer holes than with the other games I list above.

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