$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 70.52

4,883 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
30.8% of Goal | 28 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Centauri Saga» Forums » General

Subject: Are some/many missions impossible from the start? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jonathan Franklin
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
I have seen/read some of the reviews and really want to like this game.

Is it a matter of being 'too hard' or is it really that you can play a scenario with cards/rolls that lead to <1% chance of success?

In other words, if you roll two dice and take the higher roll and each time it says to draw a card, you draw two cards and choose 1, does that save the game? Or even with tweaks like that will many scenarios often be impossible to win from the start or near the start?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gabor Pivarcsi
Hungary
Budapest
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I'm thinking on the exact same thing. How can we make the game more beatable? I really want to keep the game, but the current state of the difficulty is "make one wrong move and lose". This isn't too much fun, but I'm positive that some tweaks can save an otherwise gorgeous production game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Franklin
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
I would even be ok if the wrong move was due to player 'error', but if the difficulty is created by a scenario where you have to roll a die 10 times and not get a 1, there is not much the player can do unless there is risk mitigation built in and taking the path of risk mitigation does not make winning inherently impossible.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Constantine Kevorque
Canada
Halifax
Nova Scotia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
If we could make this discussion more specific, I could definitely give you some tips/advice on how to beat a scenario. That would probably be "spoilers" for people that would like to find the solution themselves, but we can always use a "spoiler alert" label

We had 10 tables (40 players) in Gen Con, all playing the Fixing the Jumpgate (which has been said is the most difficult of scenarios). 3 tables lost, 2 tables did not finish (1 was losing the other was debatable), 5 tables won. To me this proves that the game is far from being unbeatable, but all of these players had me and the game developer, giving them tips on how to better plan their strategies.

Example of tips:
a) If your Commander gives you a bonus on Starport or Research Lab, then you should spend your first upkeep to upgrade it to Level 2. That way you gain a "Command Center" upgrade which gives you an extra Activation Token.
b) One player should be balanced and choose Exploration re-rolls to start exploring immediately.
c) It is a good practice to get a "Repair Hull" ability at the beginning of the game. That way during the first 2 rounds of the game when normally you do not get any damage, you can push your Hull to 10
d) If you go for the guns, then Scrapyard is a must at the beginning of the game.
e) One player should go for Speed, and plan to get the Special unit that gives 2 extra dice during combat versus opponents with lower speed.
f) Placing a Boss at the correct distance from the Jumpgate can change the game completely. You should put at least one boss adjacent to the Jumpgate. That way, when you build the starbase to destroy the boss, you will be left with a +1 Bonus for ALL your "Fixing the Jumpgate" special actions!
g) Choose VERY carefully which events you buy and which you adjust your armada to be able to live with.
h) At the first rounds, it is better to perform Combats BEFORE explorations. Combat will finish, and you will get an Action card. Exploration can be proven deadly if you do not have some "help" with re-rolls.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Heron
United Kingdom
Bangor
flag msg tools
mbmb
We played 2 3-player games of "Fixing the Jumpgate" yesterday and got creamed on the first go but actually won the second on the very last throw of the game!

It was brilliant - although didn't realise you could put a boss beside the jumpgate and one guy wasn't at the jumpgate at the very end (he was taking out the third boss)

We took it as a victory though! very enjoyable!

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
constantinekevorque wrote:
f) Placing a Boss at the correct distance from the Jumpgate can change the game completely. You should put at least one boss adjacent to the Jumpgate. That way, when you build the starbase to destroy the boss, you will be left with a +1 Bonus for ALL your "Fixing the Jumpgate" special actions!


It's probably worth pointing out that in most (if not all) scenarioes, this is not allowed. You cannot spawn a boss adjacent to the Jumpgate
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dmitriy Razumov
Russia
Vladimir
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Which scenario is the best for first playthrough?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am not an expert at this game, but I never went up against an impossible scenario. I have right about a 50% win rate. Not bragging here, yes sometimes you lose sometimes you win, it depends on dice, cards and decisions.

If I never won or never lost the game would go in the trash. So far it is right on and interesting and fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
martimer wrote:
I am not an expert at this game, but I never went up against an impossible scenario. I have right about a 50% win rate. Not bragging here, yes sometimes you lose sometimes you win, it depends on dice, cards and decisions.

If I never won or never lost the game would go in the trash. So far it is right on and interesting and fun.


I will say my win/loss rate is about 50/50 as well. I don't mind difficult games, especially with co-op ones. You shouldn't win every time. The real problem with Centauri Saga is that everyone can play a solid good game with good choices and even good die rolls, and it is still possible to lose some of the scenarios. In theory it is entirely possible to play a perfect game and never fail a single roll, and still lose a game, which at least in my opinion, should not be a thing. I don't mind losing because of bad decisions or even because of bad die rolls, but losing because of just the random luck of the draw is annoying. There is nothing that could be done differently during a game (without house ruling something) that will help you win in those cases. I want winning and loosing a game to be due to the players choices and mistakes, not just a random thing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with you, I just have not seen that happen, though I have not played many games. Bad things can happen in any game and I don't give this game any slap - It is either good or bad. I have played games for a LOT of years and the luck generally does even out. It is QUITE clear when one player goes on a long bad streak that affects the game.

I like to think I am "smart" enough to recognize a lost cause and since this game is not all that long I would start over.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Another annoying thing is that there are not enough cards in a few of the special event decks. Fixing the Jumpgate is a good example. There are only 5 cards in the deck. After you've played once or twice, you know exactly what is in there and can judge if the mission is going to succeed or fail by knowing what is going to come up. We had one game that should have been a nail biter, going right down to the wire with someone having the final XMP and a chance to install it on the last turn of the game for the win, but we gave up before even bothering to play that final turn because the final card in the Fixing the Jumpgate deck was the instant fail one. No point in bothering to continue. A handful of extra cards in that deck would have gone a long way to at least making situations like this happen less often. As it is, you can pretty much predict what event is going to happen next with a 1 in 5 chance that gets easier after each draw.

There was a lot of potential in this game and I still try to like it, but it is getting harder and harder to convince people to play it. I had a lot of hope that things would turn around, but the developer seems to be concentrating on their new games and aside from a slightly improved rule book, we haven't gotten any updates or anything from them since launch.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that might be what expansions are for. At least that is my hope.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dmitriy Razumov
Russia
Vladimir
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
There is a couple of huge hits, where you can play well, but lose the game because of the bad card drawing: Ghost Stories, Shadowrun: Crossfire, Robinson Crusoe (in the last scenarios).

Or I'm missing something?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Castree
Japan
Osaka
Osaka
flag msg tools
ACGalaga.com
badge
What da heck?!
mbmbmbmbmb
Ender02 wrote:
There was a lot of potential in this game and I still try to like it, but it is getting harder and harder to convince people to play it. I had a lot of hope that things would turn around, but the developer seems to be concentrating on their new games and aside from a slightly improved rule book, we haven't gotten any updates or anything from them since launch.



Actually, they updated the Rulebook a bunch and think you can order the new version from their site for pretty cheap. There was an update but haven't gotten around to ordering it myself yet.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Heron
United Kingdom
Bangor
flag msg tools
mbmb
ACGalaga wrote:
Ender02 wrote:
There was a lot of potential in this game and I still try to like it, but it is getting harder and harder to convince people to play it. I had a lot of hope that things would turn around, but the developer seems to be concentrating on their new games and aside from a slightly improved rule book, we haven't gotten any updates or anything from them since launch.



Actually, they updated the Rulebook a bunch and think you can order the new version from their site for pretty cheap. There was an update but haven't gotten around to ordering it myself yet.


Yep - I ordered that a week ago - looking forward to seeing it
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Vanschooren
Belgium
Beringen
Limburg
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ACGalaga wrote:
Ender02 wrote:
There was a lot of potential in this game and I still try to like it, but it is getting harder and harder to convince people to play it. I had a lot of hope that things would turn around, but the developer seems to be concentrating on their new games and aside from a slightly improved rule book, we haven't gotten any updates or anything from them since launch.



Actually, they updated the Rulebook a bunch and think you can order the new version from their site for pretty cheap. There was an update but haven't gotten around to ordering it myself yet.


Order it, no way. They delivered the game with a really crappy rulebook (it's my number 1 most crappy rulebook), they should cover the cost in getting us updated rulebooks.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Spukky wrote:
ACGalaga wrote:
Ender02 wrote:
There was a lot of potential in this game and I still try to like it, but it is getting harder and harder to convince people to play it. I had a lot of hope that things would turn around, but the developer seems to be concentrating on their new games and aside from a slightly improved rule book, we haven't gotten any updates or anything from them since launch.



Actually, they updated the Rulebook a bunch and think you can order the new version from their site for pretty cheap. There was an update but haven't gotten around to ordering it myself yet.


Order it, no way. They delivered the game with a really crappy rulebook (it's my number 1 most crappy rulebook), they should cover the cost in getting us updated rulebooks.


^ This. I was under the impression that they were going to be sending backers a copy of the new rule book.

That Said, it is available here at BGG to read and download. They really did not change much in it. Basically they put in a few of the FAQ right into the book where they should have been answered in the first place. Like mentioning that combat continues until one side is destroyed. Not really much of anything actually changed though as far as I can tell. A new line here or there to cover some things that were originally missed, but no actual changes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Constantine Kevorque
Canada
Halifax
Nova Scotia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
We do not believe that the game needs to have "changes" applied to it.

Based on the discussions we had here and in "Hive" we accepted the fact that the rule book could be better, and that is exactly what we did, we updated it. For all backers we covered the cost for the production of the rule book and 50% of the cost for shipping. This is as much as we could afford. We also made the new rule book available as a downloadable PDF.

Now, as far as the "unbeatable" scenarios are concerned, Trueflight you need to be consistent with your descriptions. So, you either are "experienced" with the game and you know what is going to happen or you are not.

You are describing a scenario where you lost because you knew that the last card left in the deck on the 10th round in a 4 player game was the "Energy Fluctuations". You are saying that you "knew" which means that this is NOT your first game, and since you know that this card exists, you should have prepared for it!

There is the common action card called "Butterfly Effects", which allows you to draw two cards and choose which one to play. Since this is the final round of the game, you should have at least one such card among the players. If you had these cards and you used them before, then it was a bad call. There is also the special action card "Second Chances" which allows you to take an extra turn. Also, given the fact that this was the 5th card, I am to assume that you already have lost one more Fixing the Jumpgate Scenario encounter, which seems to me as another bad call.

So, it wasn't the game that was unbeatable, it was the choices you made which led you to a point where you simply couldn't win. If you reach the dragon with no armour and no weapon, you can not blame the dragon for eating you...

We will not be changing the core mechanics of the game. We believe that they work and they are stable. We are preparing a new set of scenarios to be released as PDF downloadables, the special scenario that combines Comsic Pioneers and Centauri Saga into one game(!) and in Q2 of 2017 we are releasing the first LEGACY Expansion for Centauri Saga. So, this game has just started its life and we have many many plans for it.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damon Steff
Australia
Hurlstone Park
NSW
flag msg tools
I haven't had problems with Fixing the Jumpgate; we've managed to beat it 2 times in 2 plays (both _very_ close and both with 2 players) but last night we tried our first play of The Lost Starbases and that felt impossible from the start. Maybe we were just unlucky (did not spawn any XPM from scanning report until turn 6), but maybe we were doing something wrong.

The 'Charging the Jumpgate' track starts at 1, and does not increase at all until you have more repaired starbases than there are bosses on the board, right?; Once you start rebuilding starbases and defeating bosses it can go up by 1 point or maybe 2 points (in a 2 player game) each expand phase, and must reach 10 (again in a 2 player game) before the end of turn 10. Is that correct?

Also I was not sure how raiders should move in this scenario.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damon Steff
Australia
Hurlstone Park
NSW
flag msg tools
If people are finding the game too difficult, maybe try playing using the setup as though you had one fewer players than you actually have; so use the 2-player setup for a 3-player game etc.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris
Germany
flag msg tools
mb
agent_aubergine wrote:
I haven't had problems with Fixing the Jumpgate; we've managed to beat it 2 times in 2 plays (both _very_ close and both with 2 players) but last night we tried our first play of The Lost Starbases and that felt impossible from the start. Maybe we were just unlucky (did not spawn any XPM from scanning report until turn 6), but maybe we were doing something wrong.

The 'Charging the Jumpgate' track starts at 1, and does not increase at all until you have more repaired starbases than there are bosses on the board, right?; Once you start rebuilding starbases and defeating bosses it can go up by 1 point or maybe 2 points (in a 2 player game) each expand phase, and must reach 10 (again in a 2 player game) before the end of turn 10. Is that correct?

Also I was not sure how raiders should move in this scenario.


This is exactly how it happend to us. We managed to win "Fixing the Jump Gate" in our first try (4 players), but did not have any chance in the "Lost Starbases" scenario. We tried it two times and it felt like 1000 raiders everywhere and at least +1 event per round due to raider surge, lost challenges, or boss spawns. We did not manage to repair a single star base in 7 rounds and all 4 bosses were still present (producing more negative effects and events). We always have that problem of deciding "are we so bad?" or "did we miss a rule?"... because these are not always clear. (but there are already several threads about the bad rule book)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.