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Massive Darkness» Forums » General

Subject: Should Massive Darkness had more Alternate Sculpts? rss

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Eric B
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Poll
Do you think CMON should have offered multiple sculpts for the mob miniatures in Massive Darkness?
Yes
No
      114 answers
Poll created by deathleech


I noticed in some of the videos when there get to be 12 (or more) of the same mob on the board at a time, it can start looking a little funny since they all have the exact same pose. I know CMON has had alternate sculpts for previous games, and I know sometimes they are offered as (usually early) stretch goals. I am wondering why they didn't bother having some with Massive Darkness though?

With the chance of having so many of the same mob type attack you at once wouldn't it have made sense to have at least one alternate sculpt or pose for the more numerous mob types? I'm thinking specifically the Dwarven Warriors, Goblin Archers, and Goblin Warriors which can all spawn up to 12 mobs in a single turn in a 6 player game.

What are your guys thoughts on the matter?
 
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Felipe Bulhões
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The game would end up way more expensive or having less variety in the core box that way.
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Allan Rodda
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Well they didn't and they aren't going to change it now. Not sure what you're hoping to achieve with this poll.
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Leigh Hathaway
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Yeah, ideally they'd be in a few different poses but if I had to choose between more variations and some of the big monsters i'd go the big guys.
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Bobby Warren
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One of the problems with Zombicide is with all the various poses of the base zombies, they kind of drown out the special Zombies. I'm all for making one distinctive pose for each type.
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Julien Duminil
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In modern Zombicide, you have about 4 kind of zombies in the box, so it makes sense to have various poses to avoid seeing all time the same 4 sculpts when you play a lot (if you own only 1 core box).

But in Massive Darkness, the variety comes from the different roaming monsters, agents and mobs, so IMO it makes sense that inside a mob, there is no differences between the minions but distinguish the boss (minions are almost like deluxe tokens for the boss laugh). You'll still see a variety of monsters if you play a lot (even if you own only the core box, there is 21 monster sculpts). And as Bobby pointed out, having different sculpts here may hurt the game readability (like if you mix different Zombicide boxes and paint the minis?).
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Jeroen Timmermans
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More different sculpts sends the production costs through the roof, even if you have just 2 variants of each type. It adds nothing to the gameplay, in ZBP we got 2 different fatties, 2 different runners, 2 different female and 2 different male walkers. In the end, we just grab the amount of zombies of a specific type, and drop it on the board. It never bothers me or my group to see two same fatties in one zone, let alone 6 walkers of the same sculpt.
 
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Eric B
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zethnar wrote:
Well they didn't and they aren't going to change it now. Not sure what you're hoping to achieve with this poll.


I thought I made it pretty clear what I was hoping to achieve? Maybe you should have read it better? Here are the highlights since you seemed to have missed them:

"I am wondering why they didn't bother having some with Massive Darkness though?"

and

"wouldn't it have made sense to have at least one alternate sculpt or pose for the more numerous mob types?"

and

"What are your guys thoughts on the matter?"

Also, since you seemed to be oblivious to it, like 80% of the threads in this section of the forums are discussion about things that most likely aren't going to change and that are already in place. I guess we just shouldn't talk about anything like that though?


Coiote wrote:
The game would end up way more expensive or having less variety in the core box that way.


Perhaps. I know games like Rum and Bones and Zombicide have 3-4 different poses for the crew and zombies. Of course those games don't have a bunch of huge roaming monsters in the core game or quite as many mob types, so I suppose adding more sculpts when MD already has so many could be cost-prohibitive.

I'm just wondering if having a few as stretch goals would have further increased sales to make up for it? Instead of just getting more goblins and dwarves as stretch goals, what if they would have gave us more goblins with a new sculpt and dwarves with a new sculpt to help break up the monotony? Then these underwhelming SGs would have become much more interesting early on and could have helped boost sales more?


Bobby4th wrote:
One of the problems with Zombicide is with all the various poses of the base zombies, they kind of drown out the special Zombies. I'm all for making one distinctive pose for each type.


I don't see that being an issue with Massive Darkness since most of the roaming monsters are quite a bit bigger than the mob types. We don't have any small roaming monsters (yet).


jeroenemans wrote:
It adds nothing to the gameplay


Right, it's just a visual thing to help immersion. It's like playing with miniatures vs card board cut outs. Seeing 12 Goblin Archers would look slightly better if there were a mix of 2 or 3 kinds vs seeing 12 Goblin Archers that are all identical.
 
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Eric Bridge
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Regarding how more sculpts help "immersion", I rather doubt that the heroes are there thinking "Hey, you guys all look alike." (And the goblins then say "That's racist!") The heroes, if you want "immersion", could care less what the monsters look like. They only know that they are a threat that has to be neutralized immediately or they will die.
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Matt Hausig
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It isn't a big deal for me. At some point I expect the mobs will get to the top of my painting queue (assuming MD2 isn't out before then) and some variety is easy to add by slightly altering paint schemes, changing skin or hair colors or just going heavy on the blood or grime for a few. The main concern I have is more keeping the types of mobs easily distinguished, which again is easier if they are painted.
 
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Sam ko
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For each ennemy race in the base box, there are already 5 different sculpts : basic mob, basic leader, elite mob, elite leader and agent.
I think adding different poses to the mobs would make it more confusing/time consuming to spawn the monsters, especially if you don't paint them :
"So we need one elite orc leader and 3 elite orcs ... Why is there no more orc leader in the box ? Oh we used him instead of a basic orc here, let's swap them. No don't put this one on the board, don't you see it's an agent not an elite ?"surprise
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Eric B
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ebridge wrote:
Regarding how more sculpts help "immersion", I rather doubt that the heroes are there thinking "Hey, you guys all look alike." (And the goblins then say "That's racist!") The heroes, if you want "immersion", could care less what the monsters look like. They only know that they are a threat that has to be neutralized immediately or they will die.


Well the heroes aren't thinking anything at all considering they are inanimate objects. I'm talking about our (the players) immersion though. It's much the same way CMON decided to use plastic miniatures rather than card board cut outs for the characters. It just depends on the level of immersion you want.


Samko wrote:
For each ennemy race in the base box, there are already 5 different sculpts : basic mob, basic leader, elite mob, elite leader and agent.


Ya, I considered this. I wouldn't classify them as basic mob and elite mobs though. Some are just melee vs range or attacker vs defender.

It seems they offered two different mob types just so they didn't have to come up with as many races, but at the same time could offer us more different opponents to fight. For instance the the Dwarven Warriors seem like they are more offense oriented than the Dwarven Defenders who rely more on defense. I am guessing they did this because that's one race with two different mob types per race rather two totally different races with one mob type each.

If they would have given us 6 mob types all with a different races in the core box that means we would have needed 3 extra agents and they would have needed to come up with 6 races vs 3. While arguably not as interesting, it saved them some creative work by offering two mob types for each race.
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Mark Blasco

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I feel that with a game like this, the fewer sculpts for a creature type the better. When pulling a mob of figures out, I don't want to have to search through 100 different types in order to find the correct ones.

Finding the correct ones with a basic zombicide set isn't terribly difficult, because the fatties are fairly obvious, and the runners are in a drastically different pose. This wouldn't be the case, though, if there were also zombie skeletons, and zombie goblins, and zombie dwarves. All of a sudden, with that many different sculpts, finding the ones you want becomes much harder.

One of the things I do when painting some of my board games is to go with a very simple color scheme to help identify the pieces. For Zombicide, I did all of the core figures in a sepia brown tone, the VIP's in Black&White, and the archers in green/orange. Before I did this, we'd constantly have the wrong zombies in the wrong spots, or not notice that there was an archer in the middle of 7 walkers until 2 turns later.

Having the same sculpts of each monster type will help keeping things visually clear on the board, and in a game like this, with the monsters literally overflowing from the spaces they are on, the simpler the better.
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John Whyman
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deathleech wrote:
Poll
Do you think CMON should have offered multiple sculpts for the mob miniatures in Massive Darkness?
Yes
No
      114 answers
Poll created by deathleech


I noticed in some of the videos when there get to be 12 (or more) of the same mob on the board at a time, it can start looking a little funny since they all have the exact same pose. I know CMON has had alternate sculpts for previous games, and I know sometimes they are offered as (usually early) stretch goals. I am wondering why they didn't bother having some with Massive Darkness though?

With the chance of having so many of the same mob type attack you at once wouldn't it have made sense to have at least one alternate sculpt or pose for the more numerous mob types? I'm thinking specifically the Dwarven Warriors, Goblin Archers, and Goblin Warriors which can all spawn up to 12 mobs in a single turn in a 6 player game.

What are your guys thoughts on the matter?


The Heroquest 25th Anniversary game has a different pose for each piece. It is a rare luxury to have that kind of game.
 
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Rich Moore
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Samko wrote:
For each ennemy race in the base box, there are already 5 different sculpts : basic mob, basic leader, elite mob, elite leader and agent.
I think adding different poses to the mobs would make it more confusing/time consuming to spawn the monsters, especially if you don't paint them :
"So we need one elite orc leader and 3 elite orcs ... Why is there no more orc leader in the box ? Oh we used him instead of a basic orc here, let's swap them. No don't put this one on the board, don't you see it's an agent not an elite ?"surprise


This.

When you need distinct sculpts to differentiate among a few types of monsters, the sculpts for those types better be distinguishable. Making different sculpts within a single type would only cause confusion. The designers made the right decision here.
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Eric B
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markblasco wrote:
I feel that with a game like this, the fewer sculpts for a creature type the better. When pulling a mob of figures out, I don't want to have to search through 100 different types in order to find the correct ones.


If that were the case, wouldn't it have been better for CMON and GG to offer totally different races for each mob type? Instead of having two melee dwarven type of mobs, and two melee orc mobs, wouldn't it have been more distinctive to have different races?
 
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Mark Blasco

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deathleech wrote:
markblasco wrote:
I feel that with a game like this, the fewer sculpts for a creature type the better. When pulling a mob of figures out, I don't want to have to search through 100 different types in order to find the correct ones.


If that were the case, wouldn't it have been better for CMON and GG to offer totally different races for each mob type? Instead of having two melee dwarven type of mobs, and two melee orc mobs, wouldn't it have been more distinctive to have different races?


Yes, I think it would have been better. However, there are other considerations. By keeping monsters in several smaller groups, it opens up more options for worthwhile expansions later on. If the core game has limited variety, it's more likely people will buy expansions, and leaves more options open for future core games.

 
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Eric B
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markblasco wrote:
However, there are other considerations. By keeping monsters in several smaller groups, it opens up more options for worthwhile expansions later on. If the core game has limited variety, it's more likely people will buy expansions, and leaves more options open for future core games.


Ya, that is kind of what I was getting at in one of my previous posts. Of course that makes me wonder how limited their options really are? I mean they are tapping into all kinds of different fantasy tropes. Just look at the Oni Demon and Pharaoh Mummy.

Off the top of my head I can think of several different monster types we could have had as mobs with the core box set. Skeletal Warriors, Kobolds, Gnolls, Dark Elves/Drow, and Satyrs to name a few. Those would have easily replaced the Dwarven Warriors and Orc Flayers with a few races to spare. CMON/GG could take it a step further and start getting some crazier stuff like evil possessed Samurai, Insect people, Anubis-looking Jackals, Vampires, and demon knights. Of course this is still pretty standard fantasy, they could also come up with their own creations such as monkey warriors or something.

I don't think they would need to make Agents for every race so really it's the exact same amount of sculpts as we currently have, it's just way more interesting. You said they might be saving some good stuff for expansions, and that is probably true. If I had to guess, I would bet some sort of dragon themed expansion will be the first they release though. It was one of the most asked for things during the Kickstarter so CMON would be silly not to have it as the first expansion. They could have given us Gnolls and Satyrs instead in the core box and then had dragons with Drow, Skeleton Warriors, and three or four lesser races from the list I made above and I think that would be a pretty killer expansion?
 
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Brian C
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Less focus on minis, much, much more on rules and how the game plays.
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Almeras Fella
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If they are similar to zombicide mobs then you can put them into very hot water and just move the plastic and then dunk them in cold water.

I had to do this for mobs that leant too much on their bases (abomination in ZC:S3) or just had wonky bases. I've also used this method for resin figures I cast that had the same pose.



All of these started with the same pose
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Freelance Police
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What?? You didn't back the Reaper Bones KS?? I think you can find something there... laugh

 
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