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The U.S. Civil War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rule 19.1.2 Confederate Control in the North rss

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John Griffey
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"Remove all Control Markers in Northern States that do not have a LOC to a Confederate SP."

There's a dangling participial phrase there. It should read, "In Northern States, remove all Control Markers that do not have a LOC to a Confederate SP."

A LOC is traced to a Depot, which may or may not be a SP. In this case, I presume this means that the CSA SP must also be a Depot for the CSA.

Can the LOC from the Control Marker to the CSA SP/Depot pass through intermediate non-SP Depots to reach the CSA SP/Depot? Or must the CSA Control Marker be within 4 MP of the CSA SP/Depot?
 
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David desJardins
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AnimalMother wrote:
"Remove all Control Markers in Northern States that do not have a LOC to a Confederate SP."

There's a dangling participial phrase there. It should read, "In Northern States, remove all Control Markers that do not have a LOC to a Confederate SP."


I don't understand your point here. The two phrasings seem equivalent (and both grammatically correct). Actually, I think the published phrasing is slightly clearer.

Quote:
Can the LOC from the Control Marker to the CSA SP/Depot pass through intermediate non-SP Depots to reach the CSA SP/Depot?


Sure. Of course.
 
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Jim Patterson
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I think the question is whether the relative clause "that do not have a LOC to a Confederate SP" modifies "Markers" or "States." The alternate phrasing seems a little clearer to me, but maybe not by much, since the interrupting phrase is so short.

What does bother me is "a LOC." Many/most style guides would suggest "an" here since "LOC" ("L-O-C") begins with a vowel sound ("ell").
 
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David desJardins
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jpat wrote:
I think the question is whether the relative clause "that do not have a LOC to a Confederate SP" modifies "Markers" or "States."


I see. I agree the sentence is formally ambiguous, but I think it's not ambiguous in practice because readers have the domain knowledge that a state can't have a LOC, it is too big. Some of its hexes might have such LOCs, while others don't, and there's no definition in the rules of how you would determine that an entire State does, or doesn't, have a LOC.
 
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John Griffey
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The participial phrase, "that do not have an LOC to a Confederate SP," could be attached either to "Northern States" or to "Confederate Control markers."

The rule was unclear not because of dangling phrase.

An LOC may include, does not require a SP. In the case of small CSA garrison represented by a Control marker in a Northern City/Town, it would make sense that a CSA division would be needed in he immediate vicinity, within four movement points, to sustain it. So, it's easy to read into the rule a requirement (that the CSA SP be proximate) that's not really there. If a CSA SP far away (8 to 16 MP) from the Control marker is sufficient to sustain it, why is the SP required at all as part of the LOC for the Control marker?

Also, I find it strange that Rule 17.2.4 (Union Intrinsic Garrisons) makes it very difficult for CSA to sustain its Northern Control markers in the Action Phases, while sustaining CSA Control markers in the End Phase is very easy.
 
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David desJardins
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AnimalMother wrote:
If a CSA SP far away (8 to 16 MP) from the Control marker is sufficient to sustain it, why is the SP required at all as part of the LOC for the Control marker?


I don't know why the designer chose that rule. I don't need to know why to understand the rule.
 
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John Griffey
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I've added another para since your post above. Please respond. Thanks.
 
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David desJardins
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AnimalMother wrote:
Also, I find it strange that Rule 17.2.4 (Union Intrinsic Garrisons) makes it very difficult for CSA to sustain its Northern Control markers in the Action Phases, while sustaining CSA Control markers in the End Phase is very easy.


17.2.4 only applies to Objective Hexes. It's hard for the CSA to keep control of those. It's easier to retain control of other hexes in Northern States.
 
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Jim Dauphinais
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Quote:
What does bother me is "a LOC." Many/most style guides would suggest "an" here since "LOC" ("L-O-C") begins with a vowel sound ("ell").



Actually, I think most readers would not read LOC as L-O-C. I know I read it as Line of Communication. Even if it was read as an acronym, it would be read as "lock", not L-O-C.
 
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Grant Linneberg
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jimdauphinais wrote:
Quote:
What does bother me is "a LOC." Many/most style guides would suggest "an" here since "LOC" ("L-O-C") begins with a vowel sound ("ell").



Actually, I think most readers would not read LOC as L-O-C. I know I read it as Line of Communication. Even if it was read as an acronym, it would be read as "lock", not L-O-C.


Well, this is a real side track, but what the hell. I disagree. I always read acronyms as letters (i.e. L-O-C, not "lock") mostly because most don't have vowels (we say MLB and NFL, not mulb and nuffle). However, when I read something like "a LOC" it's perfectly clear that the writer used "a" instead of "an" because he meant "a Line of Communication" not "an L-O-C". I must be missing something as quibbling over "a" vs "an" is silly in this case as it's clear that it's an LOC however you want to pronounce it.
 
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