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Race! Formula 90» Forums » Rules

Subject: I am updating the 3.0L rulebook to include expansion 2 rules rss

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Ryan Freels
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Does anyone have any major concerns with the 3.0L rule book or expansion 2 that need clarifying?

Having more eyes on the document always helps. I have already corrected a few typos I noticed.

I am working on this when I do have free time, so it may be another month or two before it is released. Maybe by then all of the US stores will have gotten their copies of Expansion 2 cry
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John Bradshaw
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ryan3740 wrote:
I am working on this when I do have free time, so it may be another month or two before it is released. Maybe by then all of the US stores will have gotten their copies of Expansion 2 cry


Well hurry up then!

Seriously though, well done for taking this on Ryan - I look forward to seeing the result of your efforts. I have Expansion 2 but have not had the opportunity to play it yet.
 
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Jorge Blazquez Garcia
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Great, Ryan!
I talked with Alessandro some months ago about translating the 3.0 Rulebook but he told me to wait because he wanted to add the exp.2 rules. Now that you are doing that, I will keep an eye on this thread and when you finish I will ask you if you can send me the .doc file and start my job
Thanks!
 
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Nigel Uncle
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Thanks for the work you are undertaking! I reviewed deeply 3.0 rules when I worked to integrate them with our house rules; for your purpose I can suggest to clarify or modify these issues I found (references to pages as in original 3.0 rules). I will really appreciate any feedback from the authors too, especially about hardest questions!

p. 4 - fuel management
substitute procedures for removal of refuelling chits with new rules for push/save fuel strategies

p. 8 - Turn start declarations
insert "Versatility / Wise Driving" paragraph before "Skip Turn" one

p. 8 - Pit stop procedure
"shift [or remove] his refuelling chit"
there is no more removal as per new strategies

p. 9 - extreme trajectory attempt
ET target check... similar [green] diamond shape
ET are no more only green-colored

p. 9 - resolve card symbols
add the part with costs from sharp trajectories

p. 11 - movement, second paragraph
after extreme trajectories, add a phrase about bonus MP obtainable by (non compulsory) usage of sharp trajectores

p. 13 - off-track trajectory resolution
add "discard cards from hand" paragraph

p. 13 - re-entering the track
"He immediately ends its turn without taking any further action". Does this mean that a player with hazard do not get his specials? Or are these specials earned as soon as you attempt the LB manoeuvre, so you can get the Track cards before starting skidding in the gravel trap?

p.13 - re-entering the track
very confuse about leader car going off track, front of the sequence of activation and so on... Is the system intended to give priority of movement to all other cars, unless the second overtakes the leader position? and where exactly does the second car gains the leadership? some example scenarios would be really appreciated.

p. 15 - robots - section activation
scenario: in a corner section with a human player between two robot cars, last placed robot initiate a contest because of overtaking opportunity over human player. If human player declines defending, the leading robot must decline too because it's not threatened by any human overtaking attempts, so the back robot should take the lead without opposition.
Again, in a section with only robots: last is a robot teammate, forced to initiate a contest with an orange card... no other robot should take part in that contest (unless other robot teammates are forced to defend by orange cards).
Do I understand correctly how to manage these situations according to the rules?

p. 15 - overtaking
When exactly do the robots lose their remaining MP in a corner or braking section with human players? Immediately when they enter the section (so that they cannot overtake even other robots), or just when they reach the human obstacle (therefore gaining unfair advantage over robots that were already in the section, stopped by the same human too)?
I started to treat this like "entering a corner/braking section... they must stop".

p. 16 - lapping and unlapping
"lapped robots lose any remaining MP when they reach a car with more laps"
again: two lapped robots enter a straight section with a human (full laps). First enter the section and reaches a car with more laps, so it stops immediately. The second one enter the section: should it overtake the lapped robot to stop just as he reaches the leading car? or do robots lose their MP entering a section where cars with more laps are?

p. 17 - leader lapping
"the check is not required if the leader [overtakes] LAPS through a contest or through a LB manoeuvre"

p. 19 - more on contests
"a driver is not eligible... if he had the chance to play a contest IN THIS VERY SAME SECTION"
how do I define "this very same section"? what changes can make a section a different one? I mean, is that another car entering the section? the Leader escaping the section that will be reactivated later is not the case, as for the examples... Contests are certainly toughest matter in the game because of countless different situations: we need more and more examples, please.

p. 20 - more on Track Cards
Clarify unequivocally that cards with NoLB and NoET symbols must be discarded in order to avoid the blind check;
at the beginning of the two paragraphs, I'd rather say "can be used" instead of "can be played"; furthermore, in second line of NoLB paragraph, I'd write directly "discards" instead of "plays... and the card is discarded".
Moreover: SPA corner 3 Raidillon has some NoET cards, but the Extreme trajectory they refer to is not "immediately" before that section (it is actually before corner 2 Eau Rouge). As its working seems obvious, please, clarify this situation by stating otherwise that "immediately".
(Although in a fan-made track, another similar example is a NoLB card in corner 2 Curva do Sol at Interlagos, when the LB is placed before corner 1 S do Senna...)

p. 22 - strategies
adapt save tyres and hazard to sharp trajectories

p. 23 - chase
Special is made in phase D instead of C

p. 25 - phase A turn start declarations
add Versatility / Wise driving skills use as first thing to do

sorry for gigantic post, but I thought it was the only way to support your kind work!
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Ryan Freels
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Thank you for that Nigel. I am including most of those already, especially the parts with skills and abilities. My group had an issue last time we played because one guy was using save fuel to discard & draw, then drawing two cards. He should have just be discarding, then drawing 2 cards.

I will answer your rules questions this weekend, if no one else gets to it before me.
 
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Aaron Steward
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Uncle Nigel wrote:
p. 13 - re-entering the track
"He immediately ends its turn without taking any further action". Does this mean that a player with hazard do not get his specials? Or are these specials earned as soon as you attempt the LB manoeuvre, so you can get the Track cards before starting skidding in the gravel trap?

Hazard only awards specials for succeeding in a check/late-braking. EDIT: Specials earned earlier in the turn are drawn immediately. This is mentioned in the original version of the rules, but doesn't appear in the 3.0L version.

Uncle Nigel wrote:
p.13 - re-entering the track
very confuse about leader car going off track, front of the sequence of activation and so on... Is the system intended to give priority of movement to all other cars, unless the second overtakes the leader position? and where exactly does the second car gains the leadership? some example scenarios would be really appreciated.

For determining turn order and leader position, a car in an off-track trajectory is considered the last car in the sector from which it left the track. If a car in an off-track trajectory still maintains the lead, it will activate first. If the leader car shared a sector with other cars when it went off track, the first car in that sector becomes the leader.

Uncle Nigel wrote:
p. 15 - overtaking
When exactly do the robots lose their remaining MP in a corner or braking section with human players? ...

Robots will lose ther MP when encountering a human player. Since robots can pass each other back and forth freely, no unfair advantage is gained by robots over each other.

Uncle Nigel wrote:
p. 19 - more on contests
"a driver is not eligible... if he had the chance to play a contest IN THIS VERY SAME SECTION"
how do I define "this very same section"? ...

That same section of the track. Cars entering and exiting do not trigger multiple contests.
 
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Stan Hilinski
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Uncle Nigel wrote:

p. 13 - re-entering the track
"He immediately ends its turn without taking any further action". Does this mean that a player with hazard do not get his specials? Or are these specials earned as soon as you attempt the LB manoeuvre, so you can get the Track cards before starting skidding in the gravel trap?


With all specials, you get track cards as soon as you satisfy the requirements, so you will have drawn your track cards before you left the track -- and before you moved your car.

Note that with Hazard, you do not have to succeed on a blind check to get a special as someone else said. Just making the blind check qualifies you for +1 mp and a track card if you create 6+ mp.

Quote:

p.13 - re-entering the track
very confuse about leader car going off track, front of the sequence of activation and so on... Is the system intended to give priority of movement to all other cars, unless the second overtakes the leader position? and where exactly does the second car gains the leadership? some example scenarios would be really appreciated.

For discussion's sake, the section where you left the track is section X (exit), and your re-entry is section E (entry). Even though you are off track, your car is considered to be last in section X. This means your next turn occurs after all cars up and to and in section X have taken their turns. (I will bet most people screw this up.) This has other implications:
1. If the race ends and you are off track, then your position is last in section X.
2. If you are the leader and off track, all cars on your lap that are in section X or ahead of it will now be in front of you, and you will lose leadership.
Quote:

p. 15 - robots - section activation
scenario: in a corner section with a human player between two robot cars, last placed robot initiate a contest because of overtaking opportunity over human player. If human player declines defending, the leading robot must decline too because it's not threatened by any human overtaking attempts, so the back robot should take the lead without opposition.
Again, in a section with only robots: last is a robot teammate, forced to initiate a contest with an orange card... no other robot should take part in that contest (unless other robot teammates are forced to defend by orange cards).
Do I understand correctly how to manage these situations according to the rules?

There are two things I'd change about the contest rules. First, they are scattered. I wish there were one contest section that talked about contests AND how robots participate. Second, I wish the terminology were more precise. In general, one car initiates the contest (he's the Challenger), and everyone else either defends (Defenders) or declines. Robots never challenge other robots or humans who have lapped them. Robots WILL defend unless the challenger has lapped them. Otherwise, they will defend against a legal robot challenger. I wouldn't bother with a contest in your scenario 1 (although I think technically there should be one), but I would definitely resolve it in scenario 2.

Quote:

Moreover: SPA corner 3 Raidillon has some NoET cards, but the Extreme trajectory they refer to is not "immediately" before that section (it is actually before corner 2 Eau Rouge). As its working seems obvious, please, clarify this situation by stating otherwise that "immediately".

I think the free-ET explanation could be better. I always play it like other other symbols. e.g. If I play a track card with a free-ET icon for corner X, then my car must either stop, start, or pass through corner X on my turn.
 
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Ryan Freels
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I was just thinking about robots in contests, and when it is all robots, then the only thing it determines is which one gets the trajectory in the section ahead where they end the turn.

I too think if you force your robot teammate to have a contest against other robots, then they should defend. I'll email Alesandro and see if he agrees. [edit] He does agree that robots will defend against your robot teammate
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Stan Hilinski
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ryan3740 wrote:
I was just thinking about robots in contests, and when it is all robots, then the only thing it determines is which one gets the trajectory where you will end your turn.

I too think if you force your robot teammate to have a contest against other robots, then they should defend. I'll email Allesandro and see if he agrees.

No one can remove a car from a trajectory, so a contest won't change which one is on a trajectory if that is what you are suggesting.
 
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Aaron Steward
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ryan3740 wrote:
I was just thinking about robots in contests, and when it is all robots, then the only thing it determines is which one gets the trajectory where you will end your turn.

I too think if you force your robot teammate to have a contest against other robots, then they should defend. I'll email Allesandro and see if he agrees.

Either the robots are different colors and only one will end their turn there anyway, or they're the same color and it doesn't matter which one gets there first.

As for teammate robots in challenges, I agree that NPC bots probably should defend like normal.
 
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Nigel Uncle
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ODaly wrote:

Either the robots are different colors and only one will end their turn there anyway, or they're the same color and it doesn't matter which one gets there first.


Slower robots could be already on a bonus trajectory... in this (rather common?) case, who move first surely determines who will get next trajectory spots ahead.

 
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Aaron Steward
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Uncle Nigel wrote:
Slower robots could be already on a bonus trajectory... in this (rather common?) case, who move first surely determines who will get next trajectory spots ahead.


The context of the discussion was about robots in contests. Across 6 printed tracks, there are many fewer trajectories in corners than in braking/straight sections. Spa, for example has none at all.
 
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Ryan Freels
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I have finished the rules (finally!) They will be submitted tonight and should appear within the next few days as v12. Make sure to download them and give the post a thumbs up to make it to the top of the files section. Maybe unthump the previous v10 just to ensure that the new version is top rated.

The best summary sheets in there are to print out strategies, skills and turn order sheets. The strategies alone take up two pages. Next month I may work on a new summary sheet.
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Bill Koff
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Thanks Ryan! Are the new sections highlighted in some way, so we don't have to print out the whole thing just to get the new stuff?
 
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Ryan Freels
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Unfortunately it looks like the whole thing will have to be printed again due to minor changes throughout the document. I would have loved to just add things into a page or two of changes to save paper and ink, but it was not so.

The notes throughout the document are now more easily noticeable.

There were spacing changes to fit sections on the same page

Minor rules were placed in more sections so you don't have to dig through all the book for where leader checks are mentioned. (maybe we'll do an index next time...)

Expansion 2 sharp trajectories, Extreme trajectories that are not green, and dual color trajectories are covered in multiple sections.

It took a lot longer than I thought it would to update, but it should be worth it.
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Ryan Freels
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It is now up.
boardgamegeek.com/filepage/139981
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Nigel Uncle
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I never knew that Sharp Trajectories could be compulsory if you played at least one color-matching card (like I read in rules 3.0 v11, page 13).
It is clearly stated in exp 2 rulebook that "A player is not obliged to use a Sharp Trajectory if he does not want to." Who doesn't want to spend requested resources in phase C can simply decline the use of the Trajectory, and then can not claim the bonus MPs during phase D.

Am i missing something?
 
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Ryan Freels
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Alessandro must have put that in there for the final review. I was under the impression that you could back out at the last minute by not paying the cost.
 
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Stan Hilinski
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Uncle Nigel wrote:
I never knew that Sharp Trajectories could be compulsory if you played at least one color-matching card (like I read in rules 3.0 v11, page 13).
It is clearly stated in exp 2 rulebook that "A player is not obliged to use a Sharp Trajectory if he does not want to." Who doesn't want to spend requested resources in phase C can simply decline the use of the Trajectory, and then can not claim the bonus MPs during phase D.

Am i missing something?


There is a conflict between the original rules and the expansion rules. The original rules say regular traj matches are mandatory movement. The expansion rules say sharp traj are optional.

I asked Alessandro if I matched a traj with a tire or damage penalty, was I forced to use the traj and take the tire wear or damage? He said yes. I did not mention that this conflicted with the expansion rules (I forgot), and I think he forgot what he wrote in the expansion.

His answer overrides what is in the expansion rules, and I can live with it because I rarely encounter the case, and it makes how trajectories work consistent across the boards. However, if someone wants to ask him about the conflict, knock yourself out.
 
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