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Istanbul» Forums » Variants

Subject: Your thoughts on my variant rss

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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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Too make the game more strategy based, this is what i have done:

-playing with both Mocha & Baksheesh & Brief & Siegel expansion
(still a 5x4 layout as explained below)
-removing the guild hall & the caravansary from the game
(no more sudden surprises by opponents)
-removing the large market from the game
(making it difficult to accumulate money easily)
-adding only the embassy, kiosk & the secret society from the Brief & Siegel expansion (making it a 5x4 grid with 2 expansions)

I feel this variant relies more on strategy than luck or randomness of the bonus/guild cards.

Wondering what people here think on this?
 
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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Personally, I like the ability to take a chance. Even though last game I rolled 6 or less on two dice six times running! )-8

I also like the fact that players needn't choose a strategy that relies on luck if they don't want to. That's a really clever choice that broadens Istanbul's appeal, and I think your changes detract from it.


I'm also unclear what you think is wrong with the large market. Yes, it gets you a lot of money, but you need significant amounts of blue to make good use of it. I see several potential strategies which are well balanced against each other:
• Get money, buy gems
• Get red/yellow/green resources, go to Small Market, buy gems
• Get all four resources, go to Large Market, buy gems
• Get all four resources, go to Sultan's Palace for gems

Each of those can be further varied by getting different numbers of gems from the Mosques and Wainwright, though of course you can't win without getting at least some gems from the Dealer or Palace.

If you remove the Large Market, you're also weakening the Black Market, the green Mosque tile and encounters. Why do that?


The Caravansary doesn't promote sudden surprises, it mitigates them: if somebody is lucky enough to find a really powerful bonus tile, to use it they have to leave it in the Caravansary for other players to claim and re-use. Without that, the game would be much more skewed towards whoever was lucky enough to get the better bonus tiles.
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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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Yes, i somewhat agree with you, that the removing of Large Market would weaken the Black Market but i do not understand how it weakens the Green Mosque tile & as far as Encounters go, i know removing the governor lessens one Encounter but on the other side the 2 expansions add the Coffee Trader and the Letter Courier for Encounters.

Now i think i can remove the Small Market instead of the Large Market as that does not have the Blue goods, the point being if one Market goes then money becomes tight and anyways there are several opportunities to earn money, eg. Large Market, Post Office, Tea House, Encounters, Kiosk Tile Bonuses and thus removing one market(small market) just tightens and balances the game in my opinion and hence does not make the Gemstone dealer an easy target.

My gaming group does not like the fact that in the Caravansary & the Guild Hall one can just keep accumulating the cards to play them later on for a sudden surprise, throwing many a strategies out of the window as some these cards are very powerful. We much rather prefer having to know what exactly is going on with everyone and form our strategies accordingly.
 
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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jalwaaa wrote:
removing of Large Market [...] I do not understand how it weakens the Green Mosque tile

One of the key benefits of the green Mosque tile is as a way to balance your accumulation of blue with your accumulation of red, yellow and green. You need to be getting almost as much blue as the other colours in order to use the Sultan's Palace effectively.
 
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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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Oh ok, i get it now, anyways after your recommendations, i now have removed the Small Market instead of the Large Market
 
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Ian Lim
Philippines
Iloilo
Oton
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i dont agree on this.

i love the game as it is! and i think it is perfect that way!

players have there own different strategies so it is up to them what they will do, guild hall and caravansary are there to provide more choices, more choices means more fun, more things to think of, more things to consider.

those bonus and guild cards are part of the game. if you as a player dont want it just dont go there.

and because it is your game, of course you may do what ever you want, and do that kind of variant as you wish if your playmates all agrees to that, still depends to you..and your playmates.

... but again if you ask me in my opinion.. "i dont agree on that".
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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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i understand your point but we thought of this variant as the guild cards are too overpowered plus there is lots of cash inflow in the game with 2 markets. Also, mixing 2 expansions and having a 5x5 grid takes away some of the cut throat competition in our opinion.
 
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Ian Lim
Philippines
Iloilo
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in our games, guild cards are not overpowered to us.

think of this:
you spend your turn to go there. (a loss turn) and you get 1 coffee and a random card.. all of the guild cards are balanced. they a good/great in certain situations. but sometimes those are you got bad card since it doesnot help you in your current situation. so sometimes going there is bad.. and you just loss your turn just getting 1 coffee and a bad card.

sometimes it was great.. yea but not that really great (not that OP)because you spent a turn for that to get it. so it means THAT GREAT CARD COST YOU TWO TURNS.. (1 to get it and 1 to spent it, with just a bonus coffee)

In our experience (we played a really a lot of istanbul and most of those games are competitive) we go to guild hall if it is quite early game and/or it is along the way. just to spend time and maybe got a little lucky.. but in most of our games it is not that good... if you will ask me.. post office is a lot more better than guild hall.

in late game we rarely visit guild hall because it will just waste your time. this game is a race and you dont want random stuffs in a neck to neck race. but rarely , during late game we sometimes we visit it because we are maybe desperated and we need answers to block or outrace our opponent.

about the market.. i dont think market is OP too... in competitive game most good players will rush the early mosque and rush the sultan.. it is more faster than selling and go to gemstone dealer.

in a 2 player game.. if a player got an early mosque tile and the other doesnt get the other mosque tile.. it is a huge advantage!.. it is almost gg.

Early mosque (the 2 resource only Where you dont need a wainwright upgrade) is so cheap
2 resource only for 1 ruby and you got an ability active for the whole game!

after the 2 resource mosque tiles are gone..good players rush on sultan.

so your ruby plan priority is
1. mosque (only the 2 resource)
2. then then cheap sultan (only up to 5-8 resource where you dont need a wainwright upgrade)
3. every other else.. depends on the situation but it is mostly at least 1 from coffee house)



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Erik Burigo
Italy
Belluno
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“Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal.” - Granny Weatherwax
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jalwaaa wrote:
i understand your point but we thought of this variant as the guild cards are too overpowered plus there is lots of cash inflow in the game with 2 markets. Also, mixing 2 expansions and having a 5x5 grid takes away some of the cut throat competition in our opinion.


I'm curious: why do you think that 2 markets increase the cash flow? On your turn you still may go to only one of them.
 
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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Agreed.

Plus, the choice of which market to use is both really interesting and complicit with your broader strategy.
 
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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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As i pointed out earlier, a person visiting both markets has too much money coming and makes getting the gemstone dealer gems ultra easy and quicker than other means.

However, i have read all comments but i have failed to see any mentions of people having played Istanbul with both expansions and with a 5x5 grid, it would be helpful to know your experiences. Our gaming group does not feel the tightness in the game with that layout and hence we thought of having a 5x4 grid and we wanted to have the best of both expansions and therefore something had to go and hence we decided to let go of the guild and bonus cards randomness and sudden surprises and one of the markets to make money harder to come by.
 
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Ian Lim
Philippines
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jalwaaa wrote:

However, i have read all comments but i have failed to see any mentions of people having played Istanbul with both expansions and with a 5x5 grid, it would be helpful to know your experiences.


the time we got the letters and seals... we ALWAYS play 5x5 grid... (i already played 56 times of istanbul games total and so far 13 games of those are played with 5x5 grid.

my experience... as i did say in my previous post
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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jalwaaa wrote:
As i pointed out earlier, a person visiting both markets has too much money coming.

Can you explain why you think people will have more money when two markets are in the game than one?

And why you think that's "too much" money?
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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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As i mentioned earlier, too much money you can get at one go from these markets and hence you can buy the gems easily from the gemstone dealer, our group did not enjoy that.
 
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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You say that. But I can't see any reason why it would be true.

Are you sure you're playing the game correctly?
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Mihir Shah

Austin
Texas
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lol yes
 
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Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
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Maybe you could post an example sequence of turns which you feel gives an overpowered outcome, and explain how it specifically exploits the presence of two markets in the game?
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