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The Lamps Are Going Out» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some Event card clarifications...? rss

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Paul Regulski
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Are these the " correct " interpretations..?

Austro-Hungarian fleet > remains in play until the British spend 1 fleet to remove it [ wot about the Italian / French Mediterranean fleets then ? ]

East Asia Squadron > i am assuming the WA only need spend the 1 British fleet, even if they fail the d6 roll to eliminate. they just try again next turn ' without spending another fleet [ otherwise it could get silly...]

Shackled to a Corpse > the German can spend 1 PP to get rid of the -1drm for AH attacking units- this is NOT a 1 PP " transfer ". and they have to spend each turn...

Central Allies leaders > i.e. Von Sanders / Mustafa Kemal / von der Goltz cards >> all these " leaders " are used once, then are gone [ as per the rule, any event marker attached to an army has 1 use, unless stated otherwise..] seems like Mustafa is particularly not much use...
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David Brown
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There are lot of cards that need clarification, i understand that someone is creating a 'cheat sheet'

I don't understand how many of these cards got through the play test stage as some are as clear as mud. Until it sorted I can't play this as more as how the cards are interpreted changes how the game plays
 
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Gents .... Kirk is putting together a document to elaborate on the card descriptions. It'll be posted up as soon as possible.

A-H Fleet - yes, the WA must spend a Brit fleet to get the removal. The Italian and French fleets are built into the Brit fleet counters. We would have liked a more detailed naval model, but that would have increased the complexity of the game and we would have needed more counter space.

East Asia Squadron - no, a fleet must be spent each turn to get the die roll. The idea is that it will either cost you a PP to rebuild the spent fleet or you must spend a second fleet and weaken WA naval power overall. This is the price for a failed sea battle. And note that the fleet goes away automatically after 1915 per the card date limit.

Shackled to a Corpse - yes, they spend a PP each turn and to signify this you place a 1 PP Transfer marker on the Shackled marker to cover it. This cancels it for that turn only.

Central Allies Leaders - correct, they only do what is says on the card that they do. As far as Mustafa is concerned, his +1 drm on defense is tailor made for the Gallipoli army.

I understand that there have been some problems with a few of the card instructions, but a careful reading of the rules governing Event cards and the card's actual instructions will usually be the correct answer. Nonetheless, some do need further clarification and we are working on that right now.

Hermann
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David Brown
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Quote:
I understand that there have been some problems with a few of the card instructions, but a careful reading of the rules governing Event cards and the card's actual instructions will usually be the correct answer.


Hermann, you support for this game is outstanding but I have to take issue about this.

The 'Shackled to a corpse' care is a good example. No amount of careful reading of the rules and the card would enable me to know conclusively waht to do with this card.

The card states the modifier is for the remainder of the game (so far so good), but then it states that the modifier is cancelled if Germany spends 1PP........

Therefore how would I know that the 1PP cancels it for the turn or the game?

Likewise the USA vested Interests - This modfies Great Britain Production +1PP, but is this for the turn or each turn? And how would I have known.

I'm assuming it is for the turn as the Pertograd card modifier has a counter to go with it, but I am unsure

 
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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No problem, David and you're right ... the Shackled card is one of the prime examples of the few that do need further elaboration. In the case of the US Vested Interests, you're instincts are exactly correct and also follows the standard rules for Event cards. The Petrograd counter is there to remind you of its permanent status, as with Scorched Earth, etc. So see .... you got it exactly right!

But the last thing we want are gray areas and as I said, help is on the way. Thanks again for your support of the game and for posting your concerns.

Herm

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Howard Massey
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thirtybrowns wrote:
There are lot of cards that need clarification, i understand that someone is creating a 'cheat sheet'

I don't understand how many of these cards got through the play test stage as some are as clear as mud. Until it sorted I can't play this as more as how the cards are interpreted changes how the game plays


'Ya know thats right'
I've never understood this with many of the game companies.
Show it to the wife, a neighbor, someone outside manufacturing/development team.
Doesn't have to be a gamer. Just present as a set of instructions.
"see anything odd, unusual, difficult to read or comprehend?
'If they ask wheres the index, table of contexts, a definitions list'
'This font is hard to read or to small'
'Why is there a picture behind the writing, make it hard to read? '
'Why does the referenced illustration demonstrate something different than what I was referencing?'
etc,etc

Could-be the rules need a re-look whistle

With regards to this game. If your going to make the font this small on the cards put more info on the cards.
Or make the font larger.

I personally like all the 'chrome' added to the cards. Just sayin ,
a lot of space wasted in some info boxes
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Paul Regulski
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East Asia squad.

Ah ! I did not realise the east asia squad. WOULD " Disappear " in 1916 [ I thought that that rule was for only IF the card was DRAWN in 1916....] but it still does not " add-up " right in my opinion given " scale " of the Fleet size !! [ and that now the Italian / French fleets are " included " with the 3 BR fleets...] [ and why would the east asia squad. just " vanish " in 1916 ? anyway....

{ I think I will play it my way }
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Paul Regulski
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Arghh ! I got a rule wrong. Its 1 PP to re-fresh a Fleet - somehow I thought it was 2. [ since 2 to rebuild a spent fleet ...]
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Kirk Uhlmann
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The East Asia Squadron really had no where to go and was counting on resupplying at neutral ports (in South America for example). However, these options were limited and the full logistical upkeep of the ships would not be possible over the long term, which is why they were going to make a break for Germany.

Kirk
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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And just to further clarify .... a card's "marker" expires with the end date on the Event card in the same way as the card's "effects" expire per the regular Event card rule. This is stated in red on all the relevant cards to reinforce the point, but the East Asia Squadron card does not have it because of spacing issues.

Note also that this does not apply to the Skoda Works card as the card produces an actual "unit", not a "marker". So the resulting Artillery unit stays in the game if it gets in. If the Skoda Works card does not get drawn by the end of 1915, however, the unit will not make it on via that card.

Thanks!
Herm
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Paul Regulski
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THANKS. All valid points. Lovely game !
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Paul Regulski
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EAST ASIA squadron...Nonetheless this was " tiny " in comparison with the AH fleet - so if the latter can be " neutralised " by the British spending 1 fleet; then why potentially , does the British may have to spend two fleets to beat up the East Asia squadron { due to a failed roll } My point is the scale is wrong with the size that each fleet is supposed to represent & therefore inconsistent for this rule...

[ in retrospect it would have been nice, if there had been more fleet counters**..and to balance the possibility of more fleet losses..a cheaper way to replenish " spent " fleets ]

** e.g. 6 British; 4 German
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HERMANN LUTTMANN
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Hey Paul!
Yes, we would have liked to expand the naval aspects of the game, but there really wasn't any room left to do that.
As far as the East Asia Squadron, I suspect that Kirk's answer would be that von Spee was harder to track down and needed to be defeated in battle. More resources were needed to bring him to heel, whereas the A-H fleet could probably have been simply intimidated back into port without a shot being fired.

Thanks!
Hermann
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Kirk Uhlmann
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Yep, Herm pretty much has it right.

The British, with their vastly superior navy would rather engage an enemy in a pitched battle. Austria-Hungary could potentially inflict some damage on British ships but would most likely be destroyed and since they preferred to remain a "fleet in being" they will not accept battle once they see the deployment made against them. After that, the Entente pretty much kept free reign in the Mediterranean.

The von Spee raiders, however, like guerilla forces, represent a much lower level of threat but are more troublesome to eradicate. A lot of trouble and expense was made in harbors to bolster defenses against these potential raiders, probably an overreaction, along with extensive efforts to track the movements of von Spee.

Also note that the AH Fleet, an actual navy much larger in scale to the raiders, achieve their mission objective automatically once deployed - they deny sea supply and transport in the Mediterranean until dealt with. The raiders, on the other hand, must still make a roll to achieve damage against British interests.

It would be nice to develop the full naval aspect of the war with French and Italian fleets, Black Sea activity with Turkey and Russia and what not. However, this would require a lot of rules and counter expansion, and the scale would change affecting the number of units for Britain and Germany. The overhead vs. the strategic impact on the main game wasn't really worth the trade-off, but something to potentially explore someday.

Kirk
 
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