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War of the Ring: Warriors of Middle-earth» Forums » General

Subject: Little disappointed rss

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Ray PG
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Not seen a lot of comments here about this (or maybe I missed them..) But I just read the manual on Ares site, the whole thing seems a bit underwhelming to me.

Battles of the Third Era is an amazing expansion with both elements of Lords of Middle Earth and Warriors of Middle Earth + 2 new base games (which I'm still playing today) included in a single package. The whole thing was half the price of WomA back in retail. Now I get times have changed and games got more expensive, but all I am seeing here is 6 new factions/armies with some new cards to bring them in the game. Out of those 6, 4 figures where already included in previous games (Battle of the Five Armies and Battles of the third Age). Now I will probably get it, as I own everything which has to do with the series, but it's just not what I had hoped for.

Wondering what your thoughts are.

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Kolby Reddish
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I had the same feelings when I read the rulebook for Lords of Middle-Earth. I felt like it added only a little to the existing game.

Then I played it and I realized that the small changes it added caused large ripples through the entire game and the choices that you make.

I'm guessing Warriors will be the same way. Yes, right now the additions seem small. But I can almost guarantee that they will cause huge ramifications throughout the entire game.
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Humulus Lupulus
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I agree. Dividing the expansions up like this was clearly a business move to get more money (not that there's anything fraudulent about that). But, the added cost plus the 'meh' attitude towards the content (I also already own the BoTTA first edition expansion) made me decide I don't need any more expansions to this great game.
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birchbeer
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The thing you must remember about this game--always--is that it is first and foremost a labor of love. Yes, ARES needs to make a profit somehow, but you would not believe the intensive playtesting and detailed exchange of ideas that goes into each and every component, right down to the precise wording on each card. The box you receive will be a fine-tuned machine whose entire focus is to enhance the Tolkien experience. Games today are so inundated with eye candy and nebulous components (ala Kickstarter) it's easy to see why they fall flat once the novelty wears off. You will have no such problems with WOTR.
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Nick Bolton
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bamonson wrote:
The thing you must remember about this game--always--is that it is first and foremost a labor of love. Yes, ARES needs to make a profit somehow, but you would not believe the intensive playtesting and detailed exchange of ideas that goes into each and every component, right down to the precise wording on each card. The box you receive will be a fine-tuned machine whose entire focus is to enhance the Tolkien experience. Games today are so inundated with eye candy and nebulous components (ala Kickstarter) it's easy to see why they fall flat once the novelty wears off. You will have no such problems with WOTR.


Well said.

I think the main reason the new expansions are being drip fed over several years is the thorough playtesting.

The 1st edition is still a good game and with the expansion, it's even better. The second edition isn't essential, unless you are a regular player, but I appreciate the improvements that have been made by a group of people who want to make the game as good as it can possibly be.

I've already bought three versions of the game: 1st edition (added BotFA), Collectors Edition (added 2nd edition upgrade and Limited Ed LoME) and Anniversary Edition.

I haven't been dissapointed so far.
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Some dude
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shappy1010 wrote:
Not seen a lot of comments here about this (or maybe I missed them..) But I just read the manual on Ares site, the whole thing seems a bit underwhelming to me.

Battles of the Third Era is an amazing expansion with both elements of Lords of Middle Earth and Warriors of Middle Earth + 2 new base games (which I'm still playing today) included in a single package. The whole thing was half the price of WomA back in retail. Now I get times have changed and games got more expensive, but all I am seeing here is 6 new factions/armies with some new cards to bring them in the game. Out of those 6, 4 figures where already included in previous games (Battle of the Five Armies and Battles of the third Age). Now I will probably get it, as I own everything which has to do with the series, but it's just not what I had hoped for.

Wondering what your thoughts are.



I never bought Battles of the Third Age because I thought it was underwhelming. Especially the Siege Engines mechanic didn't tickle my fancy.
The thing I liked the most were the Dunlendings and that mechanic is now changed. But the Corsairs seem to have improved somewhat.

I pre-ordered Warriors of Middle-Earth but I'm thinking of cancelling it. I'll probably get just for the minis...
Lords of Middle-Earth was a little but great expansion. It was such a natural addition to the game. This one feels more pasted on.
WotR is an awesome game, but maybe it doesn't need more expansions.
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Jason Dexter
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It makes sense that if you have the expansion from the 1st edition it wouldn't be exciting to purchase again when it is very similar and has less content. But for people like me, who only have the 2nd edition, and have never seen the expansions for the 1st edition, it is definitely worth it. It doesn't completely change the game (which is good), but adds lots of replayability. With the base game you may get games which are very similar, but with LOME and WOME together I think similar games will be few and far between.
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Raf B
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I bought first edition in 2004, learned it in 2005, bought BotTA expansion in 2006, played the heck out of it, bought the CE, bought the upgrade kit, became a LoME playtester and a few years later a WoME playtester. At the end of the day, what I play the most is straight 2nd edition WOTR. For a little sumpin' different, I play LoME. And once I have a copy of WoME, I will have more options.

Options. I think that's what my post here really is about. The modular design of the 2nd edition expansions means you get all kinds of options. Do you want a lighter WOTR experience or one in full plate mail and armored steed? To echo Bruce's comment, during the two playtests I was part of, the designers impressed me with their commitment to add the minimum in the way of mechanics or complexity to achieve the maximum gain in theme and variety of options.

Options. For those that want expansions and rules that have undergone a more thorough balance test and added some bells (Elrond, Gothmog) and whistles (spiders, dead men), you have the option of upgrading. No one at Ares is insisting that owners of 1e + BotTA or the CE must upgrade and must buy all the new expansions. If you resist their siren call, you have saved yourself a not insignificant sum.

I'm not trying to sell the OP on my point of view. Some other folks who've chimed in are also meh about the new stuff. So be it. There's room for all of us in this small but growing WOTR community. What I love is the opportunity to freshen things up with new dilemmas, new situations, new surprises.

Like the time in LoME that I sent Gandalf and Strider south on turn 1, got Strider to Dol Amroth to become Aragorn and used my Card Draw result on the Narya die plus Gandalf's ring to get Rohan instantly to war. Rohan besieged Orthanc but had to withdraw when the Balrog came down through Dunland leading a sizable force to go toe to toe with the upstart Rohirrim and their wizard.

TLDR: If you're like Jason and you don't own the original games, check out this session of WOTR+LoME+WoME. Maybe that's too many options for some, and I wouldn't play that combo all the time, but boy is it fun.

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Ray PG
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bamonson wrote:
The thing you must remember about this game--always--is that it is first and foremost a labor of love.


Well...most if not all games are a labor of love in that respect. Doesn't mean they should be free of criticism. I don't mean to flame Ares or anything and I do understand a lot of time has gone into it, and I will buy it nonetheless and probably enjoy it. But I am starting to get a sense of "laziness" with Ares (it probably sounds a bit too harsh, but no other word comes to mind).

Let's be honest here 4/6 factions/miniatures were featured in earlier Ring games. LoME featured a lot of stuff from BotTA and BotFA was basically a reskin of the scenarios in BotTA.

reddish22 wrote:
I had the same feelings when I read the rulebook for Lords of Middle-Earth. I felt like it added only a little to the existing game.

Then I played it and I realized that the small changes it added caused large ripples through the entire game and the choices that you make.


I'm still on the fence about WomE, being able to loose the dice based on a throw seems to random, it does fix the overall slow start in the base game and protects the elven cities better from an early attack, but this was already done in BottA as well.

Anfauglir wrote:


I never bought Battles of the Third Age because I thought it was underwhelming. Especially the Siege Engines mechanic didn't tickle my fancy.


As an expansion to WotR the Siege Engines weren't very good, but in the Gondor scenario they were very useful and cool to use. Both the Gondor and Rohan scenario are well worth the purchase alone and are absolutely awesome. If you can still find a copy that is.
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David Williams
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I understand that from the perspective of someone who owns the original version and its large expansion there might not be much that's new here.

However, as someone who doesn't own those and never will, what I see in this expansion is a small but significant addition which will provide more variety to the game. I wouldn't actually want them to add more in one go as it would be overwhelming - I mostly play with my wife, who is already close to her limit for complexity with just LOME included; if this were any bigger it would actually put me off a bit as she wouldn't want to play. And a game so bloated I can't get anyone to play it is not worth having at all.

So while I appreciate that those used to a bigger game will not think this adds much, for us it adds just the right amount. If it were any bigger/more complex, I might still get it but I suspect it wouldn't get used.
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Patrick Tumpane
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As someone who only owns second edition plus LOME, I am super pumped for this expansion. Not only will it hold me over while I wait for the anniversary edition, but after reading the rule book I am really excited to see how the additions impact your options. The ability to use the call to battle cards in particular have me itching like a Crack head to get started.

Of course, it will arrive while I'm on my honeymoon, so I'll have to wsit an extra 2 weeks. But that's fine no- seriously I'm fine! (Nervously scratches neck). I'm gonna be fine people. Why are you staring at me!!
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Steven Noyes
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Gotta agree with other posters that whilst people that own older versions of WotR may not see these expansions as very good, us that wont ever get to play or own (wouldnt bother now i own the new version) the old versions absolutely love these expansions.
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Atanasije Stojkovic
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reddish22 wrote:
I had the same feelings when I read the rulebook for Lords of Middle-Earth. I felt like it added only a little to the existing game.

Then I played it and I realized that the small changes it added caused large ripples through the entire game and the choices that you make.

I'm guessing Warriors will be the same way. Yes, right now the additions seem small. But I can almost guarantee that they will cause huge ramifications throughout the entire game.


At first sight, though, it does seem smaller than the Lords of Middle-earth.

LoMe introduces a 3rd Scenario into the game with all the plethora of alternative cards for the FPP at the start.

I was hoping a 4th scenario might come with WoMe, in order to even further increase the replay value, but I guess that's kind of OK because the Breaking of the Fellowship came as a freebie.
 
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David Williams
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Sargeras777 wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
I had the same feelings when I read the rulebook for Lords of Middle-Earth. I felt like it added only a little to the existing game.

Then I played it and I realized that the small changes it added caused large ripples through the entire game and the choices that you make.

I'm guessing Warriors will be the same way. Yes, right now the additions seem small. But I can almost guarantee that they will cause huge ramifications throughout the entire game.


At first sight, though, it does seem smaller than the Lords of Middle-earth.

LoMe introduces a 3rd Scenario into the game with all the plethora of alternative cards for the FPP at the start.

I was hoping a 4th scenario might come with WoMe, in order to even further increase the replay value, but I guess that's kind of OK because the Breaking of the Fellowship came as a freebie.


Perhaps smaller in the number of new systems, but it has way more components. LOME had 8 minis, 5 dice, 28 cards, and some tokens. WOME has 48 minis, 2 dice, and 70 cards/reference sheets. In terms of lore they add 6 whole factions which were previously only present in abstracted card format, and Treebeard as another character.

So yeah, it only adds the factions system while LOME added keepers/lesser minions, alternate companions and an alternative scenario. But then, we have never used any alternative companions except Gandalf, and never played the alternative scenario. So for us it mostly just added the new characters who have dice (Chief of the Ringwraiths comes out often as well, maybe the alternative Mouth of Sauron occasionally).

So I definitely don't think the impact it has on the game will be smaller than LOME.
 
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Baramon
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If you're so unhappy about the expansion PM me I'd be happy to resolve your grief.
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Atanasije Stojkovic
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Baramon wrote:
If you're so unhappy about the expansion PM me I'd be happy to resolve your grief.


I don't think he actually owns it quite.
 
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Ray PG
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Sargeras777 wrote:
Baramon wrote:
If you're so unhappy about the expansion PM me I'd be happy to resolve your grief.


I don't think he actually owns it quite.


He also stated in the OP that he will likely get it anyway as he owns everything in the franchise.
 
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Jeff K
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I'm a bit surprised by some of the comments in regards to the new expansions. Like Raf and some others, I have been a WotR fanatic from way back. I'm surprised to hear some say that they think BotTA diminishes these later offerings.

From my viewpoint, it's exactly the opposite. I think they largely fumbled on the first iterations of the expansions. They were certainly not very popular at the time, and I think that Roberto was a bit surprised that the real draw to the edition were the mini-games. Although I'm sure he thought they were great, I doubt he foresaw that they would be the only reason a lot of folks picked up the expansion.

I tribute that trend to the birth of the Bo5A as a fully developed game in the family. Similarly, the care and development these expansions have been given indicates that they plan on getting it right this time around. So I see it as not so much a redundancy of BotTA, but a replacement of it as it should have been the first time around.

Like Raf, I tend to want to play straight base game, but I think that the new expansions are actually interesting and worth adding, compared to the first iterations. The difference is really night and day, there is almost no comparison.
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