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Runebound (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Skill Sets rss

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Ken Marley
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There 8 skill sets released so far Runebound.

The base game has 6:
Strength of the Wilds (Red)
Military Training (Red)
Thirst for Travel (Yellow)
Friends in Low Places (Yellow)
Favor of the Gods (Blue)
Rune Magic (Blue)

There are two in expansion released so far.
Power for Profit (Yellow) in Gilded Blade
Song of the Mountains (Blue) in Mountains of Madness

In the list below I have divided skills into combat and support. Combat skills have a direct combat effect or increase health or hand size.
Support are all other skills, which might help in combat in specific cases, but don’t in general.

Combat (cost) - Support (cost)
Strength of the Wilds 4(2.25) – 6(2)
Military Training 6(2.8) – 4(1.8)

Thirst for Travel 2(2.5) – 8(2.1)
Friends in Low Places 3(2.6) – 7(2.1)
Power for Profit 3(3) – 7(1.8)

Favor the Gods 3(2.7) – 7(2.3)
Rune Magic 4(3.5) – 6(2.7)
Song of the Mountains 2(2) – 8 (2.1)

Thoughts
Power for Profit seems in line with the other Yellow skill sets.
Song of the Mountains has cheaper skills and less combat skills then the other blue skills.
The Red sets are the most combat focused.
Every set has 4 skill success symbols.

What does FFG want you to do? They want you to pick 2 red, 2 blue, and 2 yellow sets.
Why? The colors are balanced. The chance of succeeding at a skill check stays the same.

What will I do? Do what FFG wants.
Why? I feel that color balance is important. It is unfair to have less Red skills.

What will you do when they release an expansion with a Red skill set? I will mix them all together.
Why? I feel that the 1% level odds changes are not worth sorting the skill deck each game.


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Troy Stiltner
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Why not just mix everything together and use a die to determine the success of skill checks? You could devise a system like 1,2=yellow 3,4=red 5,6=blue. Then the probability will stay constant throughout the game.



Unless maybe slight shifts in the probability of success as players draw and acquire skills is an intended part of the design. Is it even feasible to increase your chances of succeeding in red by keeping a hand full of blue and yellow cards? I've never tried.
 
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David desJardins
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stiltr01 wrote:
Why not just mix everything together and use a die to determine the success of skill checks? You could devise a system like 1,2=yellow 3,4=red 5,6=blue. Then the probability will stay constant throughout the game.


You're confused about something. The colors don't have anything to do with skill checks. All of the colors have the same 40% chance of success. The reason for the colors to be balanced is so that a hero with a high red statistic and a hero with a high blue statistic have the same chance to find skills they can use.
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Dylan Nichols
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I'm just planning on mixing them all together, I think with the amount of exerting players should be taking advantage of the deck gets cycled quickly enough anyway.

We'll see after a few more "expansions".
 
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Mike Clarke
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I left my main reply in your Asset thread, but just wanted to say thanks again. These are tremendously useful. Bookmarking this one as well. Now that you've done two, I feel strangely compelled to shower you in .
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Mark Campo
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i like the skill sets have names :-)
ya a bit faffy to separate
but if separating them leads to more diversity play types seem worth it..

I mean i game where i don't become a rogue trader.. will be different from a game from a game where i can not even become a rogue trader? right?

think it depends on how well i can organize my base set.. and be disciplined in the tear down after game..
 
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David Williams
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Andon wrote:
I'm just planning on mixing them all together, I think with the amount of exerting players should be taking advantage of the deck gets cycled quickly enough anyway.

We'll see after a few more "expansions".


How quick the deck gets cycled from skill checks and exertions makes no difference. Once discarded you have no easy way to pick those skills up.

If you just add the new cards without removing a set then if you play Corbin you won't be able to use 37.5% (3/8) of the cards you draw, rather than 33% (1/3) as in the base game.

Not working with the 3x2 set system means someone can more easily end up with hands of useless skills. If you think that will be fun then by all means play that way. But I know I won't be.
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Ken Marley
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Orion3T wrote:
Andon wrote:
I'm just planning on mixing them all together, I think with the amount of exerting players should be taking advantage of the deck gets cycled quickly enough anyway.

We'll see after a few more "expansions".


How quick the deck gets cycled from skill checks and exertions makes no difference. Once discarded you have no easy way to pick those skills up.

If you just add the new cards without removing a set then if you play Corbin you won't be able to use 37.5% (3/8) of the cards you draw, rather than 33% (1/3) as in the base game.

Not working with the 3x2 set system means someone can more easily end up with hands of useless skills. If you think that will be fun then by all means play that way. But I know I won't be.


Yeah, I agree. I prefer to mix, but I will wait until I have a third RED set before I do. Hopefully that won't be to long.
 
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Donald I
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Yes but what if they introduce a new yellow in an expansion after the red set. There will come a point where the administrative set-up time will out-weigh the satisfaction of playing a very good game.

Hopefully FFG will concentrate on the game as a game rather than a card collection set.
 
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Boredflak Boltlobber
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This has been working well for us…

* Store skill cards grouped by attribute: Body (red fist), Mind (yellow eye), and Spirit (blue swirl).

* During setup, deal out 20 from each group and shuffle into a combined skill deck of 60 cards.

Anybody see a problem with that? It's a lot easier to store three groups of cards than eight (and probably more in the future).
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Kristo Vaher
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Hmm, I have 21 red cards, all different. And I have all expansions too. I expected to have 20 red and each other 30 - but that's not true. I have 29 of yellow.

It can't be a misprint, since then I'd have a duplicate of one red card. Or do people have 30 yellow cards?
 
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Julia
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Slashdoctor wrote:
Hmm, I have 21 red cards, all different. And I have all expansions too. I expected to have 20 red and each other 30 - but that's not true. I have 29 of yellow.

It can't be a misprint, since then I'd have a duplicate of one red card. Or do people have 30 yellow cards?


We have 30. So possibly one yellow has been printed with a red dot instead?
 
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Kristo Vaher
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
Hmm, I have 21 red cards, all different. And I have all expansions too. I expected to have 20 red and each other 30 - but that's not true. I have 29 of yellow.

It can't be a misprint, since then I'd have a duplicate of one red card. Or do people have 30 yellow cards?


We have 30. So possibly one yellow has been printed with a red dot instead?


Is there a list of cards somewhere? I'd like to know of what is misprinted in this case.
 
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Julia
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Slashdoctor wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
Hmm, I have 21 red cards, all different. And I have all expansions too. I expected to have 20 red and each other 30 - but that's not true. I have 29 of yellow.

It can't be a misprint, since then I'd have a duplicate of one red card. Or do people have 30 yellow cards?


We have 30. So possibly one yellow has been printed with a red dot instead?


Is there a list of cards somewhere? I'd like to know of what is misprinted in this case.


PM me your email and I'll mail you my Excel
 
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Kristo Vaher
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Scarlet Witch wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
Scarlet Witch wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
Hmm, I have 21 red cards, all different. And I have all expansions too. I expected to have 20 red and each other 30 - but that's not true. I have 29 of yellow.

It can't be a misprint, since then I'd have a duplicate of one red card. Or do people have 30 yellow cards?


We have 30. So possibly one yellow has been printed with a red dot instead?


Is there a list of cards somewhere? I'd like to know of what is misprinted in this case.


PM me your email and I'll mail you my Excel


Done, thanks!
 
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David Williams
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Boredflak wrote:
This has been working well for us…

* Store skill cards grouped by attribute: Body (red fist), Mind (yellow eye), and Spirit (blue swirl).

* During setup, deal out 20 from each group and shuffle into a combined skill deck of 60 cards.

Anybody see a problem with that? It's a lot easier to store three groups of cards than eight (and probably more in the future).


Only problem I see is that the sets are balanced to have a reasonable spread of costs. The way you do it, you could end up with a deck containing very few cheap skills of one type and no stronger skills for another.

Probably not a major issue, but you asked and it's all I can think of.
 
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Ken Marley
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Orion3T wrote:
Boredflak wrote:
This has been working well for us…

* Store skill cards grouped by attribute: Body (red fist), Mind (yellow eye), and Spirit (blue swirl).

* During setup, deal out 20 from each group and shuffle into a combined skill deck of 60 cards.

Anybody see a problem with that? It's a lot easier to store three groups of cards than eight (and probably more in the future).


Only problem I see is that the sets are balanced to have a reasonable spread of costs. The way you do it, you could end up with a deck containing very few cheap skills of one type and no stronger skills for another.

Probably not a major issue, but you asked and it's all I can think of.


Yeah that is a pretty reasonable plan. Go for it.
 
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JD Snider
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Orion3T wrote:
Boredflak wrote:
This has been working well for us…

* Store skill cards grouped by attribute: Body (red fist), Mind (yellow eye), and Spirit (blue swirl).

* During setup, deal out 20 from each group and shuffle into a combined skill deck of 60 cards.

Anybody see a problem with that? It's a lot easier to store three groups of cards than eight (and probably more in the future).


Only problem I see is that the sets are balanced to have a reasonable spread of costs. The way you do it, you could end up with a deck containing very few cheap skills of one type and no stronger skills for another.

Probably not a major issue, but you asked and it's all I can think of. :)


Wouldn't that also potentially skew the distribution of successes for skill checks?
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Joe Casadonte
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quazai wrote:

Wouldn't that also potentially skew the distribution of successes for skill checks?


Yes
 
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David Williams
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quazai wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
Boredflak wrote:
This has been working well for us…

* Store skill cards grouped by attribute: Body (red fist), Mind (yellow eye), and Spirit (blue swirl).

* During setup, deal out 20 from each group and shuffle into a combined skill deck of 60 cards.

Anybody see a problem with that? It's a lot easier to store three groups of cards than eight (and probably more in the future).


Only problem I see is that the sets are balanced to have a reasonable spread of costs. The way you do it, you could end up with a deck containing very few cheap skills of one type and no stronger skills for another.

Probably not a major issue, but you asked and it's all I can think of.


Wouldn't that also potentially skew the distribution of successes for skill checks?


Yes, good point. In principle you could be playing with a deck considerably higher or lower than the usual 40% success rate and that will change the game difficulty accordingly.

In practise you won't know which sort of deck you have (normal, generous, stingy) so it shouldn't affect the way people play and until you have seen most of the deck your prior probability is still 40% though.

So yeah it will affect it, but in a random manner averaging around the correct ratio. I wouldn't want that personally but if you don't think about it too much it will just seem like you were particularly lucky/unlucky (which you were, but not in the usual way).
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