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Hands in the Sea» Forums » Rules

Subject: Development Victory Conditions Broken? rss

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Richard Berthiaume
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The rulebook and the player aid cards both state that when a player uses all of their city OR town tokens that they end the game.

"Place all of your town cubes or city disks onto the board."

Ended game in 4 turns as Carthage with some lucky draws.

Should the rules say "city AND town" tokens as was the case in A Few Acres of Snow, or was this a testing oversight?
 
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Robert Forrest
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From the A Few Acres of Snow rulebook:

Quote:
If there are no sieges in progress at the start of a player’s turn
and he has placed all of his discs OR cubes onto the board
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Robert Forrest
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Four turns seems pretty unlikely, I suspect you have a rule wrong.

What did you do?
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Robert Forrest
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Were you only upgrading cities on spaces with more than a one point value?
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Judd Vance
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Not an oversight. It was poor Roman strategy.

If Rome takes Aleria, you don't get that 8th development. There is no amount of lucky draws that can make up for that.

After you (as Rome) get burned by this, you become mindful of this Carthage strategy and watch the Carthaginian developments and make sure they don't do this. As Rome, one of your Turn 1 goals is to take Aleria. You do this through either the Pisa or Cosa card (connects to Alreia), the Rhegium or Neapolis card (the means of transportation) and one of Rome's many colonist cards. If the colonist is too hard to come up with, go to Olbia.

Then use your colonists to build ships. If ship Building Strategy card is out there, grab it. Build your fleet up and make sure Carthage can't go take Aleria away.

Too many Roman players abandon the naval strategy. Don't. Rome can own the seas. Their colonist cards and their specific strategy cards (Ship Building & Corvus) can make them masters of the sea, just as they were historically.

Also, keep in mind, if Carthage gets all of their developments in play, they don't win. That just triggers the end of the game. You still have to add up victory points. If Rome let them waltz to 8 developments and did not overrun Sicily, they royally screwed up.

The game ain't broken. It's just incredibly deep. You play, you lose. You learn. You adjust your strategy.

Here's another free tip: as Rome don't get in a big hurry to build up all 4 legions by turn 2. Carthage can still stall out 4 legions and if you draw, you lose a legion. Get that combined arms bonus and take advantage of those 3 leaders and their free actions. Accensi + Consul is worth just as much as a legion and if you get the combined arms bonus, it's worth even more.

Oh, and I have never ever seen the game end with somebody using up their settlements. Ever. For that to happen, Carthage would have to settle all of Corsica-Sardinia and so much of Sicily that Rome would have nothing but their two starting positions and Syracuse. And on top of that, Carthage would have developed no locations besides their original starting two, because each time you develop, your settlement goes back into your pool.
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Daniel Berger
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
Were you only upgrading cities on spaces with more than a one point value?

I suspect this is what happened. I don't think victory in 4 turns is possible. Maybe if the Roman player did nothing? Not sure.

Also, what Judd said.
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Judd Vance
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djberg96 wrote:
Edward J Grug III wrote:
Were you only upgrading cities on spaces with more than a one point value?

I suspect this is what happened. I don't think victory in 4 turns is possible. Maybe if the Roman player did nothing? Not sure.

Also, what Judd said.


I was pondering this. Carthage would have to use Caralis to settle Olbia on turn 1 and then settle Aleria on Turn 2. He would probably have to draft BOTH colonist cards and develop at every opportunity and do nothing else. He may even need the Suffette to pull that colonist card back in his hand.

And he would need to settle Agrigentum. I think it could be done by turn 4, but only if his entire strategy was built on doing this and nothing else and the Roman player sat on his thumbs and threw the game.
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Judd Vance
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The reason I say you get beat, you learn, you adjust, and come back, as well as that tip about the legions is because Dan used to beat me over the head every time we played. That guy was always two steps ahead of me.

The way I learned all of these strategies is by watching him do them to me. Every time we played we switched sides. I would think, "A ha! I will do to him what he did to me." And then he would smack me silly.

Once you figure out that this game has a million different paths to take, then the trick is being light enough on your feet to adjust on the fly.
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Mark Langford
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You can end a game of chess in 3 moves.........
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Robert Forrest
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lanky321 wrote:
You can end a game of chess in 3 moves.........


Broken.
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Konrad Wojtas
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lanky321 wrote:
You can end a game of chess in 3 moves.........


You can end a game in 2 moves (only with black). Black pieces are OP!
 
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Ingólfur Valsson
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
lanky321 wrote:
You can end a game of chess in 3 moves.........


Broken.


Game like that will never catch on.
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James Webb
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I don't think it's possible.

4 turns gives you 7 actions.

You need to settle Aleria and Agrigentum, and then develop 6 times. That's 8 actions, so it would take 5 turns at least.

Someone could probably crunch the numbers and work out exactly how lucky you would have to be to draw the right locations and enough colonists to pull this off in 5 turns.

And that's if Rome spends 5 turns doing nothing.

Then we just need to name this strategy. The Carthage Cudgel?
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Ingólfur Valsson
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revgiblet wrote:


Then we just need to name this strategy. The Carthage Cudgel?


The Agrigentum Agression.
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Judd Vance
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revgiblet wrote:
I don't think it's possible.

4 turns gives you 7 actions.


Not quite. A turn is defined as the time it takes Carthage to get through his draw deck. I think you are talking about player rounds, which is defined as 2 actions + any number of free actions.

I did show how to pull this off in 4 tuns. Settle Agrigentum on Turn 1. Use the Caralis card to settle Olbia on turn 1. Draft both colonist cards.

Turn 2, settle Aleria. Draft Suffette.

For 4 turns, use every colonist card to develop locations (you will obviously have to develop Caralis on Turn 2 or later.

And the Roman player sits there and does nothing.

Like I said, this only works due to poor Roman strategy.

Likewise if you battle and the Roman player refuses to put any cards in the battle, I'm pretty sure Carthage can win quite easily.
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Richard Berthiaume
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The issue we had was developing the 1VP spaces. However, only 2 of the ones I developed were 1 VP spaces, so it is feasible to do it in 4 or 5 turns. Missed that rule.
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Judd Vance
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DirtyWienerDog wrote:
The issue we had was developing the 1VP spaces. However, only 2 of the ones I developed were 1 VP spaces, so it is feasible to do it in 4 or 5 turns. Missed that rule.


Here's an easy way to look at it: you can't develop a space unless it has a colonist icon on the space.
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Daniel Berger
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airjudden wrote:
DirtyWienerDog wrote:
The issue we had was developing the 1VP spaces. However, only 2 of the ones I developed were 1 VP spaces, so it is feasible to do it in 4 or 5 turns. Missed that rule.


Here's an easy way to look at it: you can't develop a space unless it has a colonist icon on the space.

Those locations are also circular for discs.

But, I guess if you have the upgraded components that doesn't work as mnemonic any more.
 
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Timo Järvinen
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You can't develop Roma and Carthage?
 
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Daniel Berger
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timou77 wrote:
You can't develop Roma and Carthage?

They start developed.

In theory they could be raided down to a town and then re-developed, sure.
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