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This is the discussion and request thread for the 2016 Calgary (FallCon 29) No-Ship Math Trade.

The trade's rules are in the GeekList's header; please read them there. This thread's rules are here:

Use this thread only for the following:
1 to request games for the trade
2 to discuss issues unique to this trade

In other words, be strongly advised that "discussion" does not mean "chit-chat"—please do not clutter the thread with chatter or basic how-do-I questions. (Call me old-fashioned, but I value things like a high signal-to-noise ratio, not to mention earnest attempts at self-education. Plus, we don't want people unsubscribing due to irrelevant/inane/repetitive posts.)

Also, please don't post duplicate requests; simply thumb an existing request where applicable.

I'll update the status of the trade here (all times -0600—MDT, in other words):

Math-trade progress:
2016-09-16, ~02:00: Trade submitted to OLWLG for approval.
2016-09-16, ~03:00: GeekList, this thread opened for public additions.
2016-09-17, < 10:00: Trade approved for OLWLG.
2016-09-24, 20:10: Offering Phase complete; trade GeekList locked.
2016-09-24, ~20:17: Wants Phase active.
2016-09-27, 20:15: Wants Phase complete.
2016-09-27, 20:26: Results uploaded to OLWLG and declared official.
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So, while there's a variety of help, tutorials, and walkthroughs on math trades, there still may be folks who are unclear on one or more aspects of how to participate. 

While this thread is not the place for soliciting/offering additional aid, I'm willing to augment (not replace ) the online resources with some in-person assistance.

I'll be at a couple of gaming events this Sunday (yes, tomorrow) and Monday, and I'm willing to forego some of my gaming time to answer questions, give guidance, and so forth.

To better set expectations, here's what I'm offering:
• to answer questions based on whatever you've been reading or watching, with hands-on examples wherever possible
• to answer questions until you run out of them

...and here's when I'm offering it:
Sun, Sep 18 @ 14:15
Sun, Sep 18 @ 21:00
Mon, Sep 19 @ 18:00
(possibly other dates if interest warrants)

and here's what I need from you:
• to GM me in order to let me know which session(s) you'd like to attend, and to find out the venue
• to bring some device (laptop, tablet—the bigger the screen, the better) that will display whatever you've been reading or watching on the topic. (If a printout is the best you can do, we'll work with it. )
• to come with questions (again, based on whatever you've been reading/watching)
• to arrive on time

Thanks to
Darren Bezzant
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"Everyone wants to be unique, but no one wants to be different."
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 for a suggestion that I developed into this idea!
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Here's a twofold PSA, followed by a game request:

1) We have just over 24 hours to go before the offering deadline.

2) If you've been dragging your feet on posting games, I'll emphasize rule d10-4 of the Offerings Phase, as this seems to have tripped up experienced traders. (Old habits die hard, perhaps?)

Also, in case anyone has a copy lying around, I'm requesting Here I Stand (English deluxe edition only).
 
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Offering Phase complete; Wants Phase now active.

Wants deadline is 20:00 MDT this Tuesday.

Pro tip: I recommend each participant submit a conservative want list and revise from there as you have time. Don't let the dealine creep up on you.
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Ravneet Grewal
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I posted Carcassonne Big Box 3 and mentioned which expansions it comes with. I see now that the description wasn't as clear as it could have been. The big box only has the base game, Traders & Builders expansion, and Inns & cathedrals expansion. To avoid any confusion and someone not getting what they thought they might. I will be submitting an empty want list for this game.
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Tony Krahn
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Are the "Statistics" for this Math Trade accurate? It doesn't seem to be. I've submitted my wants and some of them haven't shown up under the stats. Does it take a long time to update? I submitted them last night.
 
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twispby wrote:
Are the "Statistics" for this Math Trade accurate?

Hmm, there's a "Math Trade Statistics" page and a "Math Trade User Statistics" page—I presume that you're asking about the latter, since that's the one that shows want list submissions times, counts, and so forth.

It's certainly accurate for my own submissions, and I presume, therefore, for everyone else's.

Quote:
It doesn't seem to be. I've submitted my wants and some of them haven't shown up under the stats. Does it take a long time to update? I submitted them last night.

You most recently submitted on "Sun Sep 25 20:13:04 2016", which was your third submission.

There's no detectable delay in updating. Whenever I submit (whether this math trade or previous ones) I immediately receive a GeekMail confirmation and the User Statistics show the timestamp of that latest submission (manual refresh required, if necessary).

The highlighted portion of your quote above is causing me some concern, though. First, it's not possible for only "some of [your wants]" to be received—when you click "Submit My Wants", your want lists are submitted as a batch. You can verify what's received by reading the confirmation GeekMail and comparing it with the Official Format tab in step 4 of the OLWLG. Second, no details of your individual wants are displayed on the User Statistics page.

Without seeing what you're seeing (the quintessential difficulty of doing tech support via forum or phone ) I can't be certain, but I suspect that you're looking at some info and expecting it to say something that it doesn't, or perhaps misunderstanding the info you're seeing.

Could you please double-check everything you're looking at and, if necessary, GM me with the link(s) to whichever page(s) are in question? The sooner we get on the same page (oh, I kill me), the better. Hope this helps!
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B Factor wrote:
Second, no details of your individual wants are displayed on the User Statistics page.


This is probably the problem. When I looked under "General Statistics" and looked at the "How many of each?" table I wasn't seeing a number by a couple of games I had on my want list.

If my want list doesn't show up their but only shows up for other people that would explain it.

When I clicked on the Math Trade User Statistics it does show the highlighted users who have games on my want list and the number of games.

I think I'm good then?

Thanks for helping me navigate my first math trade!
 
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I hadn't ever looked at these Stats pages before, so even I've learned something about math trades here (on somewhere around my 10th math trade).

I think it's important to note what the Wanted or Wish column is showing:
"The column Wanted is a count of how many users in this math trade have that game marked as "wanted" (and/or "wishlist") in their BGG collection."

So it has nothing to do with how many users have chosen a given game on their submitted "Wants" list. 2 different things with the same name (and could also be a useful stat).

*********

The stats show 13 of 14 users have submitted wants. Is their a way for the math trade organizer to know who hasn't submitted, and attempt contacting them to make sure that they haven't yet submitted. It's easy for new users to miss that they need to click on 'submit' twice, essentially. And if they have not received the confirmation geekmail then they haven't completed the submission.
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Greg Burbidge
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I've been in a pile of math trades and never looked at the stats page. Very interesting. Will probably be a better math trader in the future as a result.

In the meantime: Is it 8pm yet?! whistle
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SD40 wrote:
I think it's important to note what the Wanted or Wish column is showing:
"The column Wanted is a count of how many users in this math trade have that game marked as "wanted" (and/or "wishlist") in their BGG collection."

So it has nothing to do with how many users have chosen a given game on their submitted "Wants" list. 2 different things with the same name (and could also be a useful stat).

Highlighted for emphasis. Yes, games marked as Want in Trade in one's BGG collection and games on one's want lists for a given math trade are, from a technical perspective, utterly separate things.

Quote:
The stats show 13 of 14 users have submitted wants.

Are you referring to the line labelled "Users using want or wishlists"? If so, then once again, note that this doesn't say "users who have submitted wants"; this is, in fact, the number of users using want (i.e. Want in Trade) lists and/or wish lists on BGG. The clarification you provided above is in the context of this info.

(I fully agree that this information could be delineated more clearly on the Statistics page, but that's what we get for using "want lists" to refer to both want lists in a math trade and the list of games marked as Want in Trade in one's BGG collection. A personal observation: in my life I take a lot of flak for being "pedantic" when I implore for more precise word usage, but that's the price I think we have to pay for clearer communication.)

Quote:
Is their a way for the math trade organizer to know who hasn't submitted, and attempt contacting them to make sure that they haven't yet submitted.

Everyone (not just the moderator) can see this info on the User Statistics Page.

Quote:
It's easy for new users to miss that they need to click on 'submit' twice, essentially. And if they have not received the confirmation geekmail then they haven't completed the submission.

On this point, I respectfully disagree. With any interface or activity, it's incumbent upon a new user to read carefully and thoroughly, and the instruction "To officially submit your want lists please review the summary below and if you are satisfied then click the button" is pretty much top of page on the "Submit Your Lists Here!" tab.

Heck, I'm as guilty as anyone of reading too quickly and assuming that I've understood what I've read (hello, Agricola expansion decks!), but I blame no one but myself when things don't work out as I expect.
 
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twispby wrote:
B Factor wrote:
Second, no details of your individual wants are displayed on the User Statistics page.


This is probably the problem. When I looked under "General Statistics" and looked at the "How many of each?" table I wasn't seeing a number by a couple of games I had on my want list.

If my want list doesn't show up their but only shows up for other people that would explain it.

[...]

I think I'm good then?

If you've understood SD40's clarification above, then yeah, you're good.

Quote:
When I clicked on the Math Trade User Statistics it does show the highlighted users who have games on my want list and the number of games.

Quoting this sentence slightly out of context to say that on this point you're entirely correct.

Quote:
Thanks for helping me navigate my first math trade!

Happy to help! Here's hoping you (and everyone) gets at least one trade out of the deal!
 
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gregburbidge wrote:
In the meantime: Is it 8pm yet?! whistle

And here I worried that a 3-day Wants Phase would be too short.

Anyway, the results are now posted!

Thankfully, 7 of us got at least one trade.

I'll either post here or GM people privately to facilitate the New traders must deliver first rule, as that'll be unfamiliar to both new and experienced traders alike.
 
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Tony Krahn
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Where are the results posted? I must have missed something because I can't find them.

Edit: Nevermind. Found it!
 
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Dan D.
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So pumped!
 
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B Factor wrote:
SD40 wrote:
The stats show 13 of 14 users have submitted wants.

Are you referring to the line labelled "Users using want or wishlists"? If so, then once again, note that this doesn't say "users who have submitted wants"; this is, in fact, the number of users using want (i.e. Want in Trade) lists and/or wish lists on BGG. The clarification you provided above is in the context of this info.

Yeah, I miss-read that.


B Factor wrote:
Quote:
It's easy for new users to miss that they need to click on 'submit' twice, essentially. And if they have not received the confirmation geekmail then they haven't completed the submission.

On this point, I respectfully disagree. With any interface or activity, it's incumbent upon a new user to read carefully and thoroughly, and the instruction "To officially submit your want lists please review the summary below and if you are satisfied then click the button" is pretty much top of page on the "Submit Your Lists Here!" tab.

It happens to at least one or two users in nearly every math trade we're in (the bigger all Canada ones.)


B Factor wrote:
but I blame no one but myself when things don't work out as I expect.

True. However, in such a small trade, had there been a missing want list, that could have had a huge impact. Potentially causing 0 trades, or at least even fewer than the 9 that did trade. So it's worth a quick geekmail.
 
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Shane
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For as many times as I've done this, I can't ever keep straight who usually sets up the trade request on BGG? The giver or the receiver?
 
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SD40 wrote:
For as many times as I've done this, I can't ever keep straight who usually sets up the trade request on BGG? The giver or the receiver?

As long as the giver has the game marked as For Trade in his or her BGG collection, either party(*) is able to issue the trade proposal via the Trade Manager.

If the game is not yet marked as For Trade, then the giver must first do this, after which it simply makes the most sense for said giver to issue the proposal.

(*) If my trading counterpart is new(-ish), then regardless of giving or receiving, I personally try to be the one to issue the proposal—it's a lot easier to receive a correctly composed proposal than to compose one and worry whether one is doing it correctly. Learn by example, and all that.

On that note, to my two receivers who are both new, please expect my proposals later in the day on Wednesday, when I'll again have access to a desktop machine (so much easier than a tiny touchscreen).
 
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Still got math-trade questions? Whether or not you participated in this trade, I'll be happy to entertain questions at the trade meetup at FallCon.

Expect a format similar to the one I offered upthread. Just GM me so that I'll know to expect more than just trading games.
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