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Captain Sonar» Forums » General

Subject: Is there an official rule for resolving disputes? rss

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Frank QB
Canada
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I found in our first few games of this that the radio operator and opposing captain would often argue about the legality of the team's moves. The radio operator would swear they heard the captain say east then west, for example, The opposing captain would say, "No, I really don't think I did that" or something to that effect, or "Maybe you just misheard me". Sometimes, the argument was "I don't think your route is possible, you've crossed over yourself."

Granted, the ability of the radio operator to hear the opposing captain is supposed to be reduced, but both sides really got into an argument over it -- insisting that they were right -- and it basically shut down our game with no way to resolve it.

Has anyone come up with a way to resolve this? Is there even a mechanism in place to balance this if there WAS a way to prove an error?

Would very much like some assistance on this.

Thanks.
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Brian Schlichting
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frankqb wrote:
I found in our first few games of this that the radio operator and opposing captain would often argue about the legality of the team's moves. The radio operator would swear they heard the captain say east then west, for example, The opposing captain would say, "No, I really don't think I did that" or something to that effect, or "Maybe you just misheard me". Sometimes, the argument was "I don't think your route is possible, you've crossed over yourself."

Granted, the ability of the radio operator to hear the opposing captain is supposed to be reduced, but both sides really got into an argument over it -- insisting that they were right -- and it basically shut down our game with no way to resolve it.

Has anyone come up with a way to resolve this? Is there even a mechanism in place to balance this if there WAS a way to prove an error?

Would very much like some assistance on this.

Thanks.


I played the 8-player real time game twice with folks I didn't know. Things did get crazy a number of times where the radar operator lost track of the situation and it got questionable - on both sides. It was a crew of mellow dudes, so there was no argument.

Still, both sides were fine with the radar operator asking "What were your last three moves?" (or similar) and both sides captains would just answer those questions without worrying about it, or pausing the game or getting all rulesy. If the last three moves didn't clear it up (happened once) the radar operator just admitted he must not have been doing good at his job (and just went on with the best guesses he could). We didn't really discuss this as the rules or anything that I remember, it just naturally went that way.

The job of the captain is pretty straightforward. Unless there is lack of trust (why play then?), it's really just trying to solve the problem of the craziness mixing up the communication. It's easy to say, EAST... no I mean WEST... and the radar operator going - WAIT, which did you do? People just need to be gentlemanly about these things (IMHO).
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JonGetsGames
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PopeBrain wrote:

Still, both sides were fine with the radar operator asking "What were your last three moves?" (or similar) and both sides captains would just answer those questions without worrying about it, or pausing the game or getting all rulesy. If the last three moves didn't clear it up (happened once) the radar operator just admitted he must not have been doing good at his job (and just went on with the best guesses he could). We didn't really discuss this as the rules or anything that I remember, it just naturally went that way.


This is what we do as well. It's not in the rules and perhaps it's slightly against the thematic purpose of a Radio Operator not getting all the directions right, but we prefer them to have an accurate puzzle to solve. We usually ask for the previous 3 and if it's still confusing we MAY ask for the last 5 but that's rare and after that then the mistake really does fall on the operator for not paying enough attention.
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Kristo Vaher
Estonia
Tallinn
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frankqb wrote:

Granted, the ability of the radio operator to hear the opposing captain is supposed to be reduced, but both sides really got into an argument over it -- insisting that they were right -- and it basically shut down our game with no way to resolve it.


Incorrect. Captain must say the direction loud enough for radio operator to hear it. I actually suggest radio operator and captain sit opposite across the table. Rules have players sit opposite per role, but this is not as effective.

So: R for radio operator, E for engineer, F for First Mate and C for captain:

REMC
----
CMER

This means that radio operator can hear captain better as the rules say - since captain must be loud enough for everyone. In case of argument they can also ask questions without shouting across the room.
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Leon Stansfield
Austria
Lower Austria
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OPTION A:
Let the game accompany by Referees, if at hand. Those referees should monitor both Captain Stations, both First Mate Stations and both Engineer Stations – but NOT the Radio Operator Stations! If the Sonar Officer makes a mistake: Bad luck then! Captain, Fist Mate and Engineer have the duty to make proper notes on their player sheets. Otherwise one of the teams would be at a disadvantage and vice versa. If the Radio Operator made false entries on his transparent sheet than he has the wrong job and his team has to pay for it.

OPTION B:
If both teams are arguing about the legality of the submarines’ course than the Radio Operator of the team that distrusts the other should hand over his transparent sheet to the Captain of the other team. The Captain can place this sheet on top of his player sheet to determine differences. Then he should be able to give the opposite team a little help. Senior Officers should always be generous and respectful – even to their greatest enemies!
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Derek Thompson
United States
Marion
Indiana
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For our next game, as captain, I will shout GO WEST instead of just saying "west". A lot of times the other radio operator thought I was making moves when I was just discussing things with the engineer.
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Igor Larchenko
Russia
Ivanteevka
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frankqb wrote:
Has anyone come up with a way to resolve this? Is there even a mechanism in place to balance this if there WAS a way to prove an error?

Both teams can log their moves. For example, in such sheet.
 
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George
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We think it's important to always say "Head" before the direction when you're making an official move, e.g. "Head North" "Head East". This makes it easier for both teams to know when the Captain is making an actual move rather than just discussing a move.

After each Captain move, the Engineer/FirstMate both have to say "OK" which should further clue the opposing radio operator that it was the official move.

When explaining, I said the rules state that the Captains should be loud and clear when stating their direction, as the difficulty of the game is not supposed to be talking quietly enough so the other team's radio operator can't hear you. It's keeping up and trying to locate their position.

Most of our confusion came when one of the teams would stay "Stop" but the other Team had just made a move, not yet getting the OKs. The Radio operator would normally ask "Did that last move go through?" and everyone would clarify.

I guess there could still be a fight over if the Captain is calling out the right direction... maybe he accidentally says "Head West" while going east. I guess if it happens consistently, then a 3rd party observer would the only way to clear that up. I would hope bringing up the issue would be enough for the opposing captain to be more careful in what they are saying.
 
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Brian Schlichting
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soosy wrote:
I guess there could still be a fight over if the Captain is calling out the right direction... maybe he accidentally says "Head West" while going east. I guess if it happens consistently, then a 3rd party observer would the only way to clear that up. I would hope bringing up the issue would be enough for the opposing captain to be more careful in what they are saying.


If that happens consistently, I'd probably suggest a new role for the captain.
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Clinton Bolinger
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A house rule we have implemented at our game nights is as follows:

- Every time a "STOP" action is called
- Both Captains must say their last heading and how many times that heading was said consecutively.
- Example: North - 3 or East - 1 or East - 8

This allows the radio operator, engineer and first mate know what heading was last transmitted and executed.

This has helped reduce confusion.

-Clinton

More discussion here: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23655497
 
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