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Sergeants D-Day» Forums » General

Subject: SHOW Update rss

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Jeffery McCulloch
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If you have been checking out the SMG page on BGG, you will have seen my posts on the current state of SHOW. Let me give you a quick rundown.

The vehicle modules for Wave 1 are done. The base expansion of Sergeants: Hell on Wheels is in progress and rapidly moving to completion. I have been working on the rules like a madman to get them ready for release. Most of the components are either completed, or being corrected and placed into production.

Some of the rules that are being worked on now are artillery, radios, mine/booby-traps, incendiaries, expanded smoke, and a number of others. The core rules for SHOW dealing with vehicles is about 90% done. We are going through the rules with a fine-toothed comb to make sure they are solid.

As a result of doing SHOW, we have found it necessary to update the core SDD rules. So, there will be an updated version of SDD coming out in the near future, after SHOW.

I'll make sure I cross post on both the SDD and SMG pages as I progress in the SHOW rules.



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Mayor Jim
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Who is helping you? Hope you're not doing this alone?
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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MayorJim wrote:
Who is helping you? Hope you're not doing this alone?


I'm own my own for the most part. If I hit a snag I discuss it with JB to see what his intent is, we talk it out to see if I understand it and work to get it to make sense for both of us, then I write it down. This can be a little slow, but it works for the most part. I'm now at 20 pages from the original 8, and still more to go. Its all good.
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Stephen Meyers
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Are you soliciting ideas suggestions and/

or conundrums which have puzzled players

so that you can achieve max clarity?
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Constantinople wrote:



Are you soliciting ideas suggestions and/

or conundrums which have puzzled players

so that you can achieve max clarity?


Yes. Fire away.
 
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Tom Boyd
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skippykaos wrote:
I'm now at 20 pages from the original 8, and still more to go.


Brevity is a good thing.
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Tommy20 wrote:
skippykaos wrote:
I'm now at 20 pages from the original 8, and still more to go.


Brevity is a good thing.


I'm all for brevity. Not a word more than is necessary.
 
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Throknor
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Tommy20 wrote:
skippykaos wrote:
I'm now at 20 pages from the original 8, and still more to go.


Brevity is a good thing.

I thought an excess of brevity was the issue with the current rulesets. In my experience with three other players we'd end up with four interpretations of anything that wasn't literally spelled out.

I even had someone put a grenade on a medic because "He has a Throw value!".
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Throknor wrote:
Tommy20 wrote:
skippykaos wrote:
I'm now at 20 pages from the original 8, and still more to go.


Brevity is a good thing.

I thought an excess of brevity was the issue with the current rulesets. In my experience with three other players we'd end up with four interpretations of anything that wasn't literally spelled out.

I even had someone put a grenade on a medic because "He has a Throw value!".


My goal is crystal clarity. I'm admittedly pretty anal about getting a rule right, so if I have to approach it from twelve different directions to make it bullet-proof, I will.

What rules issue might that have been that you are referring to. I might cover it in SHOW?
 
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Tom Boyd
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Throknor wrote:

I even had someone put a grenade on a medic because "He has a Throw value!".


The problem there wasn't with the rules...
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Tommy20 wrote:
Throknor wrote:

I even had someone put a grenade on a medic because "He has a Throw value!".


The problem there wasn't with the rules...


Yeah, I know. I think it would be reasonable to get the Medic cards redone. There weren't that many released.
 
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Throknor
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Tommy20 wrote:
Throknor wrote:

I even had someone put a grenade on a medic because "He has a Throw Toss value!".


The problem there wasn't with the rules...

Not sure what you mean by that. Medics is a whole section in the D-Day rules I have. I'm looking now at a web pdf I have; it states "Medics may only Shoot at Close Range in Urban locations.". I'd have to dig out the printed copy, but even setting aside the grenade question that statement is ambiguous. Does that mean they can't Shoot at Close range unless in Urban but can Shoot Long willy-nilly, or is 'Close Range at Urban' the only time they can Shoot period?* After all, they have other ranges. And that's just one example sentence that reads poorly. We also had a long argument about whether a landmark 'square' was one square or four squares for close combat purposes and for counting units against the square's unit limit and probably for where the center was for checking which squares to count; hopefully that is clarified as well.

I'd be happy to give join any public rules review; I spent a lot of money on this for it to just sit on the shelf to avoid arguments. I can get pretty nit-picky when I put my mind to it. cool

*(To me the latter seemed obvious due to the whole negative VPs - otherwise I'd field nothing but medics to shoot long range and get my own points if the enemy fought back. That's also why I deduced grenades were out since Toss** wasn't mentioned. Maybe it should have read that if they did anything else attack-wise they lost their 'protected' status or something.)

** Throw, Toss - I was going from memory. Everyone got what I meant but I want to acknowledge the mistake.
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Throknor wrote:
Not sure what you mean by that. Medics is a whole section in the D-Day rules I have. I'm looking now at a web pdf I have; it states "Medics may only Shoot at Close Range in Urban locations.". I'd have to dig out the printed copy, but even setting aside the grenade question that statement is ambiguous. Does that mean they can't Shoot at Close range unless in Urban but can Shoot Long willy-nilly, or is 'Close Range at Urban' the only time they can Shoot period?* After all, they have other ranges. And that's just one example sentence that reads poorly. We also had a long argument about whether a landmark 'square' was one square or four squares for close combat purposes and for counting units against the square's unit limit and probably for where the center was for checking which squares to count; hopefully that is clarified as well.

I'd be happy to give join any public rules review; I spent a lot of money on this for it to just sit on the shelf to avoid arguments. I can get pretty nit-picky when I put my mind to it. cool

*(To me the latter seemed obvious due to the whole negative VPs - otherwise I'd field nothing but medics to shoot long range and get my own points if the enemy fought back. That's also why I deduced grenades were out since Toss** wasn't mentioned. Maybe it should have read that if they did anything else attack-wise they lost their 'protected' status or something.)

** Throw, Toss - I was going from memory. Everyone got what I meant but I want to acknowledge the mistake.


Good stuff and this too will be made clear. Let me hop on and clarify a bit, just so you can dust off your game and play some more.

1. Landmarks are one big square. Just one. They "count" as two squares for all of the actions requiring counting squares. For close combat they still count as one huge square. And, you'll probably never have enough soldiers to fill it up.

2. As for that Medic - its in the bag, man. A trained "medic" can go all Rambo like with his little sidearm just like a regular soldier. But, when you attach that Medical Bag equipment card to the Medic, then you have a Medic by the rules. Drop the bag, no Medic. And, the Medical Bag is not recoverable, so drop it and you lose it.

3. That line about urban and Close range also needs to be clarified. It means that if, after all modifiers are counted, the range ends up being other then Close, then there is no shot. It doesn't mean that the only time he can shoot is in Urban and then only at Close range.

Good stuff. Keep it coming.
 
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Throknor
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skippykaos wrote:
Throknor wrote:
Not sure what you mean by that. Medics is a whole section in the D-Day rules I have. I'm looking now at a web pdf I have; it states "Medics may only Shoot at Close Range in Urban locations.". I'd have to dig out the printed copy, but even setting aside the grenade question that statement is ambiguous. Does that mean they can't Shoot at Close range unless in Urban but can Shoot Long willy-nilly, or is 'Close Range at Urban' the only time they can Shoot period?* After all, they have other ranges. And that's just one example sentence that reads poorly. We also had a long argument about whether a landmark 'square' was one square or four squares for close combat purposes and for counting units against the square's unit limit and probably for where the center was for checking which squares to count; hopefully that is clarified as well.

I'd be happy to give join any public rules review; I spent a lot of money on this for it to just sit on the shelf to avoid arguments. I can get pretty nit-picky when I put my mind to it. cool

*(To me the latter seemed obvious due to the whole negative VPs - otherwise I'd field nothing but medics to shoot long range and get my own points if the enemy fought back. That's also why I deduced grenades were out since Toss** wasn't mentioned. Maybe it should have read that if they did anything else attack-wise they lost their 'protected' status or something.)

** Throw, Toss - I was going from memory. Everyone got what I meant but I want to acknowledge the mistake.


Good stuff and this too will be made clear. Let me hop on and clarify a bit, just so you can dust off your game and play some more.

1. Landmarks are one big square. Just one. They "count" as two squares for all of the actions requiring counting squares. For close combat they still count as one huge square. And, you'll probably never have enough soldiers to fill it up.

2. As for that Medic - its in the bag, man. A trained "medic" can go all Rambo like with his little sidearm just like a regular soldier. But, when you attach that Medical Bag equipment card to the Medic, then you have a Medic by the rules. Drop the bag, no Medic. And, the Medical Bag is not recoverable, so drop it and you lose it.

3. That line about urban and Close range also needs to be clarified. It means that if, after all modifiers are counted, the range ends up being other then Close, then there is no shot. It doesn't mean that the only time he can shoot is in Urban and then only at Close range.

Good stuff. Keep it coming.


1) I don't think we filled it up; thinking more I think it was a question about whether opposing soldiers in opposite corners would shoot at each other or were in hand-to-hand combat and the total count there was too much for a small square (e.g. 4 vs. 4). Having a printed building between them, and the players having played the large version, didn't help the discussion. But it sounds like there is no 'opposite corners', just one big square. Somehow we either couldn't find it or couldn't explain it right.

2) That's clear enough. The instructions just need to Medic section to state "Medics are only Medics if they take their bag; if they don't or drop it during play the become regular soldiers for all purposes."

3) Sounds like that rule has nothing to do with Medics.

Again, I'm at work and going by an old pdf & the large issues I recall. I know there was something about the soldier count and soldier placements around unpassable terrain that I can't find in it.
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Throknor wrote:


1) I don't think we filled it up; thinking more I think it was a question about whether opposing soldiers in opposite corners would shoot at each other or were in hand-to-hand combat and the total count there was too much for a small square (e.g. 4 vs. 4). Having a printed building between them, and the players having played the large version, didn't help the discussion. But it sounds like there is no 'opposite corners', just one big square. Somehow we either couldn't find it or couldn't explain it right.

2) That's clear enough. The instructions just need to Medic section to state "Medics are only Medics if they take their bag; if they don't or drop it during play the become regular soldiers for all purposes."

3) Sounds like that rule has nothing to do with Medics.

Again, I'm at work and going by an old pdf & the large issues I recall. I know there was something about the soldier count and soldier placements around unpassable terrain that I can't find in it.


Yes, a landmark is treated like a regular square for Close Combat.

Your last statement was the very first issue I had with the rules as written. By rule, what is in the square didn't matter so where you placed your soldiers didn't matter, except for that No Move legend bit on page 20. Then, of course, adding trenches modified that. But yeah, while you could place, I think nine stands, in the square, the existence of a NO MOVE graphic reduced that number since you couldn't place soldiers on those. Again, another area that needs cleaning up.

There is plenty more that needs to be clarified, as well as "bleed-over" from SMG such as Soldier facing and base-to-base contact.

Keep it coming. I'm taking it all down.
 
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Todd
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Will this be a comprehensive rule book for both SMG and SDD?
 
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Mayor Jim
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Need medics for SMG...
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Maus wrote:
Will this be a comprehensive rule book for both SMG and SDD?


The current plan is one comprehensive book for each of the two systems. After the release of SHOW, though.
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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If you backed SDD and you are supposed to get the preview rules and that JagdTiger, a heads-up e-mail is coming your way. Just got one.
 
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Mayor Jim
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Hmmmm....still waiting on mine
 
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Throknor
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MayorJim wrote:
Hmmmm....still waiting on mine

It's a 'confirm your address' email. They may be doing them in groups as they get ready to send.

I had completely forgotten about it, but I'm pretty sure there was a minimum pledge level.
 
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Martin Gallo
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The email mentioned that shipping would be complete by the end of the month. I hope that is true.
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Update...

The SHOW rules are now done and have been submitted for final approval, layout, and printing.

In the coming days we will set up an FAQ on the LBG site so I can start taking the inevitable questions and requests for clarification.

As that is implemented, I will be turning my attention to the core rules.

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Mayor Jim
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skippykaos wrote:
Update...

The SHOW rules are now done and have been submitted for final approval, layout, and printing.

In the coming days we will set up an FAQ on the LBG site so I can start taking the inevitable questions and requests for clarification.

As that is implemented, I will be turning my attention to the core rules.


Good info...thanks!
 
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Jeffery McCulloch
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Update...

The play-test SHOW rules have been printed and, along with the JagdTigers are being shipped tomorrow. This includes everyone with a Heavyweight or higher pledge on the Sergeants D-Day KickStarter.
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