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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » Rules

Subject: Terrain Questions rss

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David Fenton
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Canyon-
Am I understanding correctly that the Dragon may only cross a Canyon outside space if Surfaced and using Wing? It may not cross at all while Unsurfaced?

Would it be possible to use 2 Wings to fly over the space, then turn 90-degrees and exit a different side (as opposed to flying straight over), or would finishing a Wing move over the space be considered "ending movement"? This might also apply if Dragon was approaching from 2 tiles away.

Does a wall on either side (or both sides) of the Terrain affect the use of Wing to fly over the Terrain?

Pits
For the Dragon, can Dragon move in any direction before / after entering Pit? I.e. use 1 move (out of 2) to travel between pits, then move 2nd tile in any direction), or move from any adjacent tile onto a Pit, then move to another Pit to finish move?

Lake-
This has no effect other than acting as Lit tiles (to cause population loss) for Goblins?

General-
When a player exits Terrain into an empty space, does that player place the top Dark tile on the stack (or choose from one of the Cave's tiles without seeing them), or does the Cave place the tile as normal? Rules as written indicate that the player moving onto the space draws the tile, but that seems inconsistent with the Cave rules.

If a piece is pushed into/through Terrain, does it take damage? I.e. if a Goblin/Thief is pushed into Magma (and left there) using Giant Bats, is it Scattered/Killed. Does the Goblin lose Population if pushed through Magma or entering/pushed upstream in River? Can a player be pushed through Pits?
(Being pushed through Lit tiles doesn't cause Population loss, but being pushed through Flame Wall does, hence the question)

If Terrain is collapsed with Goblin/Thief on it, do they exit the tile at adjacent edge even if there isn't a tile there yet (and add one), or do they move to the nearest pre-existing tile? Of course a Knight would have to move all the way to a lit tile since any newly placed tile would be Dark.

Can Goblins/Thief be pushed off Terrain into an empty space (placing a new tile there)?

Are Goblins scattered if Wrath collapses Terrain that they are on, even if the Goblins aren't on the "hit" space (such as if the Goblins were on the far space of the River tile)?

Can Goblins add Dark tiles to multiple edges of Terrain (like Mushroom Forest) in one turn by moving off into a open space and adding tile, then back onto the Terrain, then off into the next open space and adding tile, then back on, then...etc? (Could do same with River or Lake, though some Population would be lost moving on and off).
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
Canyon-
Am I understanding correctly that the Dragon may only cross a Canyon outside space if Surfaced and using Wing? It may not cross at all while Unsurfaced?
Correct.

Quote:
Would it be possible to use 2 Wings to fly over the space, then turn 90-degrees and exit a different side (as opposed to flying straight over), or would finishing a Wing move over the space be considered "ending movement"? This might also apply if Dragon was approaching from 2 tiles away.
The intention is that the Dragon would have to cross(fly) completely from one side to the other using a single 2-space movement, so it can't change direction mid-move.

The Thief (using Climb) isn't limited to straight-line moves, so he could make a 90° turn on the way through.

Quote:
Does a wall on either side (or both sides) of the Terrain affect the use of Wing to fly over the Terrain?
Using the Wing to cross a wall moves you from one side of the wall to the other, so both sides have to be a legal space for the dragon to stop, even just for a moment.

Quote:
Pits
For the Dragon, can Dragon move in any direction before / after entering Pit? I.e. use 1 move (out of 2) to travel between pits, then move 2nd tile in any direction), or move from any adjacent tile onto a Pit, then move to another Pit to finish move?
Entering a pit uses the first space of the Dragon's move, then moving to another pit tile uses the second movement, so the [wing] movement to leave the second pit is an entirely new movement and direction doesn't matter.

Because you cannot end your movement on a pit, the Dragon would have to be able to make that second move to leave the pit tile before the end of its entire movement, or it would not be allowed to enter the first pit.

Quote:
Lake-
This has no effect other than acting as Lit tiles (to cause population loss) for Goblins?
Entering the Lake is intended to have the same effect as entering the River (immediate -1 population). Once they're in, the lake spaces are treated like normal lit tiles (unlike the river, where direction matters).


Quote:
General-
When a player exits Terrain into an empty space, does that player place the top Dark tile on the stack (or choose from one of the Cave's tiles without seeing them), or does the Cave place the tile as normal? Rules as written indicate that the player moving onto the space draws the tile, but that seems inconsistent with the Cave rules.
It's just like placing a Dark tile to fill an open edge. If there's a Cave player they provide it, but in a non-Cave game it's drawn from the top of the stack.

Quote:
If a piece is pushed into/through Terrain, does it take damage? I.e. if a Goblin/Thief is pushed into Magma (and left there) using Giant Bats, is it Scattered/Killed. Does the Goblin lose Population if pushed through Magma or entering/pushed upstream in River? Can a player be pushed through Pits?
(Being pushed through Lit tiles doesn't cause Population loss, but being pushed through Flame Wall does, hence the question)
Magma is specific about players ending their turns there, so being pushed into there will not hurt anyone unless they decide to stay there.

The Lake and Rivers are essentially more "harsh" lit tiles, so Goblins are immune to those effects when being pushed by other players.

Pits are considered adjacent, so pushing someone one through there would be legal provided they don't stop on either pit tile.

Quote:
If Terrain is collapsed with Goblin/Thief on it, do they exit the tile at adjacent edge even if there isn't a tile there yet (and add one), or do they move to the nearest pre-existing tile? Of course a Knight would have to move all the way to a lit tile since any newly placed tile would be Dark.

Can Goblins/Thief be pushed off Terrain into an empty space (placing a new tile there)?
Exiting terrain to an empty space requires active movement by the player, so if they're pushed or forced to leave because of the tile collapsing, it has to be to an existing legal space, or that terrain can't be removed. It follows the standard rules for removing tiles, it's just a larger tile.

Quote:
Are Goblins scattered if Wrath collapses Terrain that they are on, even if the Goblins aren't on the "hit" space (such as if the Goblins were on the far space of the River tile)?
Yes, because they're on the affected tile.

Quote:
Can Goblins add Dark tiles to multiple edges of Terrain (like Mushroom Forest) in one turn by moving off into a open space and adding tile, then back onto the Terrain, then off into the next open space and adding tile, then back on, then...etc? (Could do same with River or Lake, though some Population would be lost moving on and off).
The intention is once per movement. A Goblin tribe could move off one edge, place a tile there, then use Explore to add a second tile.

The Knight could technically do this legally, but it's costing her movement and encounters for each tile she adds.
 
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
Using the Wing to cross a wall moves you from one side of the wall to the other, so both sides have to be a legal space for the dragon to stop, even just for a moment.

Woelf wrote:
Because you cannot end your movement on a pit, the Dragon would have to be able to make that second move to leave the pit tile before the end of its entire movement, or it would not be allowed to enter the first pit.
You state for Pit that another movement can be used (so making it through a Pit requires 2 moves) since the only way for a Dragon to get through a Pit is to either start or end a movement on one. However, you say that changing direction in a canyon is not allowed because you aren't allowed to end movement over the canyon space (even if you immediately use another Wing). This is contradictory, since you aren't allowed to end your movement on a Pit tile either (so Pit doesn't appear to be a "legal" place to stop and start another Wing).

Maybe Pit should be reworded to say that you can not stop on one there (though could you perform another Power before flying off?). Or state that you can "use Wing to fly straight over the Canyon (starting adjacent to it) if there are no intervening walls".

Woelf wrote:
Entering the Lake is intended to have the same effect as entering the River (immediate -1 population). Once they're in, the lake spaces are treated like normal lit tiles (unlike the river, where direction matters).
This makes sense, but the Rulebook doesn't mention anything about the -1 on entry (so it should be added to the next revision).

Woelf wrote:
It's just like placing a Dark tile to fill an open edge. If there's a Cave player they provide it, but in a non-Cave game it's drawn from the top of the stack.
Please reword this in the Rulebook then, since the Rulebook is pretty specific: "If they do, that player must draw...". Just say "a tile is placed", instead of saying who does it.

Woelf wrote:
Magma is specific about players ending their turns there, so being pushed into there will not hurt anyone unless they decide to stay there.

The Lake and Rivers are essentially more "harsh" lit tiles, so Goblins are immune to those effects when being pushed by other players.

Pits are considered adjacent, so pushing someone one through there would be legal provided they don't stop on either pit tile.
This seems a bit contradictory, since you can't push someone onto a pit tile (since they aren't supposed to end movement there), but practically the Goblins/Thief can't end movement on Magma either (at least not at the end of their turn), but I do notice the wording difference.

If they are allowed to end movement there without dying, does this mean that a Goblin/Thief may legally move off a Collapsing tile onto Magma and stay there until their next turn?

Woelf wrote:
Exiting terrain to an empty space requires active movement by the player, so if they're pushed or forced to leave because of the tile collapsing, it has to be to an existing legal space, or that terrain can't be removed.
Ok, I wasn't sure if "exiting" could only happen on their turn, since rules regarding entering and exiting are inconsistent as to when they apply (entering Fire Wall vs entering Lake/River...one hurts players pushed into them regardless of "active movement", the other doesn't).

Woelf wrote:
It follows the standard rules for removing tiles, it's just a larger tile.
This is inconsistent with "Treat each square space of a Terrain tile, equal in size to a Cave tile, as its own tile". You should reword that statement to state that you mean for movement only, since it seem like some things like Wrath affect the entire Terrain "tile", not just the one space "tile" that is affected.

Woelf wrote:
The intention is once per movement. A Goblin tribe could move off one edge, place a tile there, then use Explore to add a second tile.
This should probably be spelled out, since the Rulebook only says a player may exit on any edge and Goblins get unlimited movement on non-Lit tiles (and could hence enter and exit a tile as many times as they like). Nothing currently says they have to stop there once revealing a tile (if the newly appeared tile connects to other pre-existing Dark tiles, I'd assume they can keep going)
 
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Kyle
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You had great timing asking this set of questions, because we're working on edits to that section right now.

Most of this will be clarified in the revised rules and/or the FAQ.
dsdhornet wrote:
Woelf wrote:
Using the Wing to cross a wall moves you from one side of the wall to the other, so both sides have to be a legal space for the dragon to stop, even just for a moment.

Woelf wrote:
Because you cannot end your movement on a pit, the Dragon would have to be able to make that second move to leave the pit tile before the end of its entire movement, or it would not be allowed to enter the first pit.
You state for Pit that another movement can be used (so making it through a Pit requires 2 moves) since the only way for a Dragon to get through a Pit is to either start or end a movement on one. However, you say that changing direction in a canyon is not allowed because you aren't allowed to end movement over the canyon space (even if you immediately use another Wing). This is contradictory, since you aren't allowed to end your movement on a Pit tile either (so Pit doesn't appear to be a "legal" place to stop and start another Wing).

Maybe Pit should be reworded to say that you can not stop on one there (though could you perform another Power before flying off?). Or state that you can "use Wing to fly straight over the Canyon (starting adjacent to it) if there are no intervening walls".
The effects are meant to be different. The canyon spaces are impassable terrain so you can only move through (over) them but can never stop on them. Due to the dragon's standard movement restrictions, if it can't make the entire crossing in a single shot, it can't make that move at all.

The Pits are treated like normal tiles for movement purposes, just with the added rule that you can't end your entire movement on any of them. Wording it to say you cannot end any turn on a pit will straighten that up without changing the intended effect.

Because each pit is considered adjacent to the others, a player can be pushed into one and then out another, just as long as they can be pushed far enough to be in a legal space at the end of the movement.
Quote:
Woelf wrote:
Entering the Lake is intended to have the same effect as entering the River (immediate -1 population). Once they're in, the lake spaces are treated like normal lit tiles (unlike the river, where direction matters).
This makes sense, but the Rulebook doesn't mention anything about the -1 on entry (so it should be added to the next revision).
This was an oversight in the rules and will be corrected. Goblins don't like water, in any form.

Quote:
Woelf wrote:
It's just like placing a Dark tile to fill an open edge. If there's a Cave player they provide it, but in a non-Cave game it's drawn from the top of the stack.
Please reword this in the Rulebook then, since the Rulebook is pretty specific: "If they do, that player must draw...". Just say "a tile is placed", instead of saying who does it.
This will be reworded slightly in this section, but will also be covered by the general rules for placing tiles.

If there's a Cave player in the game, they always control which tiles get placed when new ones are needed. If there's no Cave player, the current player draws from the top of the stack instead.

Quote:
Woelf wrote:
Magma is specific about players ending their turns there, so being pushed into there will not hurt anyone unless they decide to stay there.

The Lake and Rivers are essentially more "harsh" lit tiles, so Goblins are immune to those effects when being pushed by other players.

Pits are considered adjacent, so pushing someone one through there would be legal provided they don't stop on either pit tile.
This seems a bit contradictory, since you can't push someone onto a pit tile (since they aren't supposed to end movement there), but practically the Goblins/Thief can't end movement on Magma either (at least not at the end of their turn), but I do notice the wording difference.
The wording will be made more clear, but for the sake of consistency with flame wall, pushing goblins into the water should reduce population by 1. Once they're in the water, it follows the rule for pushing them through lit tiles which prevents them from losing any additional population.

Quote:
If they are allowed to end movement there without dying, does this mean that a Goblin/Thief may legally move off a Collapsing tile onto Magma and stay there until their next turn?
Yes.

Quote:
Woelf wrote:
Exiting terrain to an empty space requires active movement by the player, so if they're pushed or forced to leave because of the tile collapsing, it has to be to an existing legal space, or that terrain can't be removed.
Ok, I wasn't sure if "exiting" could only happen on their turn, since rules regarding entering and exiting are inconsistent as to when they apply (entering Fire Wall vs entering Lake/River...one hurts players pushed into them regardless of "active movement", the other doesn't).
This will be fixed to be more consistent(above).

Quote:
Woelf wrote:
It follows the standard rules for removing tiles, it's just a larger tile.
This is inconsistent with "Treat each square space of a Terrain tile, equal in size to a Cave tile, as its own tile". You should reword that statement to state that you mean for movement only, since it seem like some things like Wrath affect the entire Terrain "tile", not just the one space "tile" that is affected.
The spaces are separate for movement purposes, but when the tile is caved-in obviously you can't remove only part of it, so the entire tile goes at once. That affects everyone on the tile as a normal collapsed tile, even if they weren't in the specific space(s) that were hit.

Woelf wrote:
The intention is once per movement. A Goblin tribe could move off one edge, place a tile there, then use Explore to add a second tile.
This should probably be spelled out, since the Rulebook only says a player may exit on any edge and Goblins get unlimited movement on non-Lit tiles (and could hence enter and exit a tile as many times as they like). Nothing currently says they have to stop there once revealing a tile (if the newly appeared tile connects to other pre-existing Dark tiles, I'd assume they can keep going)[/q]This will be reworded to address the goblins more specifically, but it's meant to be once per action or encounter. If the Goblins want to add more than one tile adjacent to a terrain they'll need to use more than one tribe and/or exit the terrain for the "free" dark tile and then use the Explore action to add a second next to it.
 
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I would really like to be able to buy a properly printed set of revised rules.
 
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Thanks for the response. Those answers make sense.

Hopefully you'll be able to make updated rules/player mats available for sale to those with the first edition. Cards shouldn't need to be changed (any clarifications could be handled by errata).

I'm also sure that many on this board would be interested in looking over the updated rules for clarity and consistency (if you're interested in that).
 
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For Mushroom Forest, Claw is mentioned as a Ranged attack even though it's possible to affect the tiles the Dragon is on, but what about other Powers that affect adjacent tiles, like Slap (essentially the same effect as Claw for Knight), Swat (same as Claw vs Knight but for Treasure), or Flame Wall? What about Wisp (similar "sight" rules as the bow? I know these last aren't normally considered "Attacks", but neither is Hiss or Hex. What if Claw targets the tile the Dragon is on (if the Dragon is in the same Mushroom Forest space as the other player)?

Maybe an all-inclusive list might be better, unless you just have it block any action taken from another tile (so all of the above would be blocked, except for Claw if on same tile).


Woelf wrote:
The wording will be made more clear, but for the sake of consistency with flame wall, pushing goblins into the water should reduce population by 1. Once they're in the water, it follows the rule for pushing them through lit tiles which prevents them from losing any additional population.
One way to word this might be to say that damage triggered when entering tiles occur any time a player is moved into the tile (Flame Wall, entering Lake/River). Effects triggered when moving through or exiting a tile only occur during that player's turn (Goblin Lit movement, River, and Magma).
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
For Mushroom Forest, Claw is mentioned as a Ranged attack even though it's possible to affect the tiles the Dragon is on, but what about other Powers that affect adjacent tiles, like Slap (essentially the same effect as Claw for Knight), Swat (same as Claw vs Knight but for Treasure), or Flame Wall? What about Wisp (similar "sight" rules as the bow? I know these last aren't normally considered "Attacks", but neither is Hiss or Hex. What if Claw targets the tile the Dragon is on (if the Dragon is in the same Mushroom Forest space as the other player)?

Maybe an all-inclusive list might be better, unless you just have it block any action taken from another tile (so all of the above would be blocked, except for Claw if on same tile).
I don't like having all-inclusive lists because then there's the assumption that anything not specifically listed automatically goes elsewhere, when that's not always the case.

Claw is one of those that goes both ways, depending on how it's being used and what gets rolled. If the Dragon is in the forest and wants to attack another player in the same space, a Claw attack that hits that center space is valid. Using claw to attack someone in an adjacent/surrounding space when the Dragon and/or the other player is in the forest would not be allowed.

If the Dragon and its intended target were both outside the forest when it used Claw, a third player inside the forest would be safe even if the Claw roll hits that player's space.


In a more general sense, direct melee attacks are allowed, but anything that reaches out of the same space, even to an adjacent space (essentially a range of 1) is not allowed or has no effect.

That same restriction/protection applies to all effects, even ones that aren't considered attacks (Slap, Wisp, Hex, Bow, etc.)
 
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Woelf wrote:
I don't like having all-inclusive lists because then there's the assumption that anything not specifically listed automatically goes elsewhere, when that's not always the case.
I agree.

My concern was that the text has it protect against "ranged attacks" and "outside effects", which aren't really defined (Claw isn't always ranged, Hiss isn't an attack, and if the Dragon Slapped the Knight while both were the forest, would the effect be considered "outside". Your explanation answers that question. for brevity, you could rephrase it to say that "those in the Forest can only cause effects (and be affected by players) on their own tile."

A few other potential questions (with my interpretation in italics):

A. Can something like Wrath collapse the Forest from outside? (I'd assume not if there were a player in the Forest, but yes if there wasn't. The player is protected, not the tile)
B. What about Wrath from inside the Forest? (I'd say yes only if there were no other player and the center tile was affected)
C. If a Dragon casts Wrath from inside, can it affect tiles outside: a piece outside isn't protected by outside effects, and the text says it only prevents Ranged Attacks (which Wrath isn't) by those inside? (you say pieces inside can't affect other tiles, so I'd assume not)
D. Can Flare be used from inside the Forest? (I'd say no)
E. Can players in the Forest be ambushed via Hiding Spots? (I'd say yes, since the card essentially lets Goblins move to the tile, i.e. into the Forest, and attack once in the same space)
F. What about Hexing a Dragon/Thief in the same Forest space as a Tribe? (I'd say no, since I feel like playing a Secret isn't done by a specific Tribe (though a specific Tribe may be needed to perform the action once played, such as Hiding Spots)


Note: with most of these questions I agree wholeheartedly with your reasoning (and have generally guessed your intent). But since I know you're working to rework the rules to be more clear, I'm just trying to brainstorm any source of possible confusion.
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dsdhornet wrote:
A few other potential questions (with my interpretation in italics):

A. Can something like Wrath collapse the Forest from outside? (I'd assume not if there were a player in the Forest, but yes if there wasn't. The player is protected, not the tile)
B. What about Wrath from inside the Forest? (I'd say yes only if there were no other player and the center tile was affected)
C. If a Dragon casts Wrath from inside, can it affect tiles outside: a piece outside isn't protected by outside effects, and the text says it only prevents Ranged Attacks (which Wrath isn't) by those inside? (you say pieces inside can't affect other tiles, so I'd assume not)
The forest only protects the players and not the tile itself, so Wrath can destroy it whether it comes from inside or outside.

Incidentally, if the Dragon is in the forest when it uses Wrath, it's guaranteed to remove the tile because every possible die roll hits either the Dragon's space or at least one of the other three forest spaces.

Quote:
D. Can Flare be used from inside the Forest? (I'd say no)
Flare is not an attack and doesn't affect other players directly, so it can be used while inside the forest.

Quote:
E. Can players in the Forest be ambushed via Hiding Spots? (I'd say yes, since the card essentially lets Goblins move to the tile, i.e. into the Forest, and attack once in the same space)
No. The tribe simply makes the attack directly without being placed or moving into the Knight's space, and that sort of adjacent attack is exactly what the forest prevents.

Quote:
F. What about Hexing a Dragon/Thief in the same Forest space as a Tribe? (I'd say no, since I feel like playing a Secret isn't done by a specific Tribe (though a specific Tribe may be needed to perform the action once played, such as Hiding Spots)
Hex isn't used directly by any tribe to affect another player, so it's blocked.

A card like Fire Bomber or any of the Monsters are okay, because those are used by a specific tribe when attacking someone else in their space.
 
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Woelf wrote:
The forest only protects the players and not the tile itself, so Wrath can destroy it whether it comes from inside or outside.

Incidentally, if the Dragon is in the forest when it uses Wrath, it's guaranteed to remove the tile because every possible die roll hits either the Dragon's space or at least one of the other three forest spaces.

I can see that for an unoccupied Forest, but if a Goblin tribe is in the Forest when Wrath hits it, how would the Forest "protect" them? Would they be displaced to the nearest tile, would they be Scattered (i.e. not protected at all), or would the tile simply not Collapse? I'm assuming that Cave-In could be used on it as well (regardless of whether a player is present or not...but at least that doesn't damage any players)?
 
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Wrath targets the tile, not the players. It isn't an attack and doesn't target the Goblins directly, so the forest won't protect them from scattering when it gets destroyed.

Cave-in can remove the forest too, but any Goblins on it would be allowed to move to a nearby safe tile just like if the tile had collapsed normally.
 
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Woelf wrote:
Wrath targets the tile, not the players. It isn't an attack and doesn't target the Goblins directly, so the forest won't protect them from scattering when it gets destroyed.

Cave-in can remove the forest too, but any Goblins on it would be allowed to move to a nearby safe tile just like if the tile had collapsed normally.


OK, so to summarize (make sure I understand). The Mushroom Forest prevents effects of ranged actions directly targeting player in the Forest. It also prevents players in Forest from using ranged actions to directly target players in other tiles. Actions targeting tiles or other tokens have normal effect.

So, Normal effect:
A) Abilities that affect non-player objects like Treasures (i.e. Swat or Giant Bats when moving Treasure)
B) Abilities directly affecting an opposing player on the same space (i.e. Attack, Claw on same tile, Scratch)
C) Abilities targeting / affecting tiles, regardless of whether there is a player on it (i.e. Wrath, Cave-In, Scorch, Burn, Flare, Flame Wall)

Cancels effect:
A) Abilities that directly target another player on a different tile (i.e. Claw on different tile, Slap, Hiss, Bows, Cross-Bow, Wisp).
B) Abilities targeting players that aren't directly made by a player on the board (i.e. Soporific Spores, Hex).


Currently Claw and Wrath both affect tiles, not players (as indicated by Claw's "Affected tiles:"). The Scattering of Goblins via Wrath cannot be considered a consequence of the tile collapsing, since no other tile collapse mechanism also Scatters Goblins. Thus the Scattering must be a specific effect of Wrath (in addition to the tile collapse), and the text is virtually identical to Claw: "Scatter Goblin Tribes" vs "Goblin Tribes Scatter". Thus, if a Goblin can be Scattered by Wrath, it stands to reason it should also be Scattered by Claw, since there is no difference in wording to accommodate a different behavior.

This may not be how you intend it, but that is how it now reads. I suggest you either allow the Forest to prevent scattering on Wrath (it collapses the tiles, but doesn't otherwise affect the Goblins) or reword Claw to make it clear that it "targets all players on affected tiles". Or you can reword the Forest text to specifically mention Claw as an exception to (not an example of) the normal rules (i.e, you can't use Claw inside the Forest even though it affects tiles).

I'm also assuming that Hex may be used on something outside the Forest even if there is one Goblin tribe within the Forest? What if all 3 tribes are in the Forest? I'd feel like all 3 tribes in the Forest mean you can't use Hex (since it's just like Hiss at that point), so you must have one tribe outside to use it.
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
This may not be how you intend it, but that is how it now reads. I suggest you either allow the Forest to prevent scattering on Wrath (it collapses the tiles, but doesn't otherwise affect the Goblins) or reword Claw to make it clear that it "targets all players on affected tiles". Or you can reword the Forest text to specifically mention Claw as an exception to (not an example of) the normal rules (i.e, you can't use Claw inside the Forest even though it affects tiles).
Claw refers to tiles because of how the dragon die works, but only affects the players on those tiles and not the tile themselves. Wrath is creating the exceptions, because it does target the tiles directly, and scattering the tribe is a side effect of how the tile is removed - that's also why the dragon doesn't get to eat them. We'll play with the wordings a bit to make that more clear.

Quote:
I'm also assuming that Hex may be used on something outside the Forest even if there is one Goblin tribe within the Forest? What if all 3 tribes are in the Forest? I'd feel like all 3 tribes in the Forest mean you can't use Hex (since it's just like Hiss at that point), so you must have one tribe outside to use it.
Even though the strength of Hex is determined by the Eye tribe, the actual use of the card is not tied to any particular tribe, so the locations of any or all of them on the map doesn't affect it at all. You can still use it if all three tribes were in the forest or even if none of the tribes are on the map.
 
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David Fenton
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Does movement downstream through the River involve moving through each tile along the way? The rulebook says "may move [...] to any space", but its isn't clear if this is tile by tile or an instant move (skipping tiles in between). This would affect credit for Swift or whether an intervening "Flame Wall" causes damage.

I'm assuming it's intended as tile by tile (similar to the Dragon's Slap)
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
Does movement downstream through the River involve moving through each tile along the way? The rulebook says "may move [...] to any space", but its isn't clear if this is tile by tile or an instant move (skipping tiles in between). This would affect credit for Swift or whether an intervening "Flame Wall" causes damage.

I'm assuming it's intended as tile by tile (similar to the Dragon's Slap)
It's treated just like normal movement, so anything in between that would prompt interactions has to be dealt with on the way through.
 
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David Fenton
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Hopefully my last terrain questions:

If terrain is Collapsed via Wrath or Cave-In, are all spaces replaced with Dark tiles, or just any open edges left behind?

I think it's been established that Goblin population damage caused by "leaving" a tile (Lit tile movement, Magma, etc) only applies during normal Goblin movement, and not when moved by something like Giant Bats. What about when moving off a Collapsing tile like Magma (maybe the Cave chases them on with Giant Bats, then wants to collapse it)? Does it matter who Collapses it (i.e. can the Goblins enter Magma, then collapse it with Cave-In to leave a different edge "for free", without taking damage)?

Basically, is the "no damage when pushed out of tiles by other Giant Bats" a trait of A) being non-normal movement, or B) happening outside the Goblin's turn?
 
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Jonathan Chaffer
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dsdhornet wrote:
If terrain is Collapsed via Wrath or Cave-In, are all spaces replaced with Dark tiles, or just any open edges left behind?

There aren't any rules that say to replace collapsed tiles with dark tiles, so no. The open edges get new dark tiles as a side effect of the rule about open edges in general (the Cave immediately fills them in), not because of the collapsed tiles per se.
 
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