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Myth» Forums » General

Subject: german edition realeased now : completely revised new edition! just how "revised" is it? rss

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Julian Dick
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Hi guys!

Myth is finally getting its german release this month.
In its advertising text, it is written:

"completely revised new edition/reprinting that finally allows you to immerse yourself into the fascinating world of Myth".

I remember that there were a lot of problems with the first edition of the game when it first came out. the rules were bad, the printed components were also lacking rules and important texts and you needed to put a lot of work into the game to balance the game and create enjoyable scenarios yourself. There were also some components mentioned in the missions/rules that where missing in the box. The game was pretty much broken/unplayable. That was at least the impression I got, i was not really following along.

Since then i noticed they did another kickstarter for 2 expansions and they are going the release a new second edition of the game with completely rewritten rules and matching cards/components as well as an upgrade kit for the 1st edition.

Is the german version releasing this week equivalent to the english second edition, or is it still the flawed, outdated first edition of the game just with translated texts?
Is this game now a complete box? With complete scenarios and functioning rules?

greetings, Julian
 
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Matthew H
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My thought would be that they are releasing the german version of the 2.0 rules. It would seem silly to release the 1.0 rules. Additionally, they took the acts out of the rule book as they changed how exploration works in the game. the downloadable files on their website for "Rise of the Revenant" is the new format they are doing called modules.
 
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Bubba Bull
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There actually was a german first edition with all the "messy" stuff just being translated in 2015, so you if they are claiming this to be a new, revised edition I would assume that this is the equivalent to the 2.0 english edition with the adjusted quest and character cards etc. Check the release date for 2016 and you should be fine.
 
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Jochen Wiesner
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Ulysses actually waited this long with the release to get the 2.0 rules done in german.
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Kathrin
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I had a quick look at the rules Ulisses has for download at http://www.ulisses-spiele.de/produkte/999/myth/ and they are definitely a translation of the English 2.0 rules.
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Julian Dick
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Ok, that is good to hear that they waited and updated the game!

Has anybody experience with the 2.0 game?
Is it more playable now?
What are the major improvements vs 1.0?
Does the game feel "complete" or does it just feel like a "base game" of a larger system?
Does the game require printing out fan made stuff or improvising your own stuff to work properly?

Greetings, Julian

 
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David Griffin
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Enroth186 wrote:
Ok, that is good to hear that they waited and updated the game!

Has anybody experience with the 2.0 game?
Is it more playable now?
What are the major improvements vs 1.0?
Does the game feel "complete" or does it just feel like a "base game" of a larger system?
Does the game require printing out fan made stuff or improvising your own stuff to work properly?

Greetings, Julian



There isn't much actual difference in the rules between 1.0 and 2.0. The new manual is shorter and omits some things in the 1.0 manual that are still helpful (like a description on how to play the basic characters). I don't think either version is very helpful in LEARNING the game. It's not that helpful looking things up either unless you are using the electronic version.

The cards have slight formatting changes but I also have some of the KS heroes and they still have 1.0 cards and I don't really notice the difference.

The free form questing is not called Adventure Mode. The chapter quests and act quests are "obsolete" and it's arguable whether the story quests are or not. They want to do "modules" but so far only a couple are available and only for download. They aren't putting slaugthterfield tiles into quests anymore, it will be its own separate thing.

The base game seems to want at least 1 more faction and probably lacks a few things like mini-bosses to go with the factions and so on. That is hard for me to evaluate because I bought a big KS lot on eBay so I got a lot with the package including the 2.0 rules. It's more than complete enough to play.

I did download the modules and a flowchart that is helpful to play but it's not like some games where you can't really play it without player aids. It's fine the way it is. The only problem is that it's a heck of a learning curve to play and I don't think it's even feasible without watching the Megacon videos to get a feel for how it's supposed to play. It's an amazing unique game, but you have to really work hard to learn it initially and I don't think 2.0 helped much.
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MM
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carbon_dragon wrote:
The only problem is that it's a heck of a learning curve to play and I don't think it's even feasible without watching the Megacon videos to get a feel for how it's supposed to play.


QFT! This game requires significant work in order to learn. Some find the work rewarding, others overly tedious with unfulfilling results. I'd highly recommend checking out the MegaCon videos before investing in this game.

carbon_dragon wrote:
It's an amazing unique game....


I fall into this camp. I like the game and once I learned how to play it enjoyed the experience.
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David Griffin
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To be fair, some games, like Star Trek Attack Wing FELT easier to learn initially, but are actually just as hard to learn to play well. What was different with Myth is the times when you were just looking down at the board wondering what the heck to do. With STAW you didn't have those blank moments, but of course you just played badly. You just didn't realize it!

I really think if we could just fix it so that the "on-ramp" for Myth was easier, a lot more people might play it. I'm not sure we can count on them fixing the manual but more videos might do it. Note that an obscure game I bought called "Earth Reborn" had a pretty interesting sequence of introductory games, each of which was attempting to teach a few important rules concepts. There were maybe TOO many of those scenarios but now I wonder if that approach might be worth trying in Myth. You could have a super long module where each act was shorter than usual and each act introduced some new rules concepts along with gradual increases in opposition. Maybe it's not practical, not sure.
 
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MM
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carbon_dragon wrote:
I'm not sure we can count on them fixing the manual but more videos might do it.


Regardless of what state the manual is in today, Megacon believes they "fixed" it. I mean, they reluctantly "fixed" the first version after months of professing nothing was wrong with it.

Only after serious community backlashing did they agree to refactor the manual into 2.0. They then hired the Sadler brothers, who had done this before, to come in and do this work.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the manual now. I do feel there's a need for other supporting documentation such as a Learn to Play guide or Quickstart, but I am not holding my breath on those (plus the personally do me no good anyhow). Megacon has moved well beyond that point and shows little interest in introducing new players to Myth.

They are an extremely small company and must focus their energies where it is most beneficial. Going back to a 2014 title and "fixing" it yet again, for a relatively small number of people, isn't likely in their best interest at this point. At least that's how I see it.

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David Griffin
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Mistermannindy wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
I'm not sure we can count on them fixing the manual but more videos might do it.


Regardless of what state the manual is in today, Megacon believes they "fixed" it. I mean, they reluctantly "fixed" the first version after months of professing nothing was wrong with it.

Only after serious community backlashing did they agree to refactor the manual into 2.0. They then hired the Sadler brothers, who had done this before, to come in and do this work.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the manual now. I do feel there's a need for other supporting documentation such as a Learn to Play guide or Quickstart, but I am not holding my breath on those (plus the personally do me no good anyhow). Megacon has moved well beyond that point and shows little interest in introducing new players to Myth.

They are an extremely small company and must focus their energies where it is most beneficial. Going back to a 2014 title and "fixing" it yet again, for a relatively small number of people, isn't likely in their best interest at this point. At least that's how I see it.



It might sound as though we disagree, but I don't think we do. Fixing the on-ramp for the game -- getting new players up and running more quickly -- is the problem. And we better hope that they would be helping a large number of people trying to learn the game, because the alternative is that the game never achieves critical mass and goes into the "great games that never quite caught fire" category.
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Sebastian
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i have the first KS, and now the 2.0 rules and crads.

i played the game with somenone who played it for the first time a month ago.

we had no problems and it was a lot of fun!

the game is great! and i hope will get another boost with the 2.0 rules.

they didn´t change much with the new rules, they are just better written.

i have to say that there can be a situation where it is not totally clear what to do, but i think for a game with so much diffenrence in every palyable char, and so many unique boss mechanics, thats just the case some times.

highly recommend this game!! ameritrash mixed with deep card play and dice rolls! i love it :)
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Jochen Wiesner
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carbon_dragon wrote:

It might sound as though we disagree, but I don't think we do. Fixing the on-ramp for the game -- getting new players up and running more quickly -- is the problem. And we better hope that they would be helping a large number of people trying to learn the game, because the alternative is that the game never achieves critical mass and goes into the "great games that never quite caught fire" category.


The KS gathered nearly one million dollars each with about 5000 supporters. Add to that those people that got the retail version. What exactly is critical mass for you?
 
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Günther
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Enroth186 wrote:
Is the german version releasing this week equivalent to the english second edition, or is it still the flawed, outdated first edition of the game just with translated texts?


It seems that all of your questions have been answered by now. But if you still have questions specifically concerning the German version, you could also head over to the German myth forums at http://weltvonmyth.de/forum/index.
There hasn't been much activity lately, but its members are generally helpful and competent.
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Julian Dick
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Quote:
There hasn't been much activity lately, but its members are generally helpful and competent.


That's the main problem why I posted here on bgg.
there have not been many posts in month.
I think the german community is really small. Maybe it is getting bigger now that the german version is finally hitting stores.
Thank you for the link though.
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David Griffin
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The_Crimson_King wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:

It might sound as though we disagree, but I don't think we do. Fixing the on-ramp for the game -- getting new players up and running more quickly -- is the problem. And we better hope that they would be helping a large number of people trying to learn the game, because the alternative is that the game never achieves critical mass and goes into the "great games that never quite caught fire" category.


The KS gathered nearly one million dollars each with about 5000 supporters. Add to that those people that got the retail version. What exactly is critical mass for you?


It looks like people playing it in the game stores and on YouTube.
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:

It looks like people playing it in the game stores and on YouTube.


I don't think Myth is the kind of game that works well in a wall-of-games environment (beautiful miniatures tend to get pocketed), so if you meant gaming cafe when you said game store, I'm inclined to agree with you.

That being said, I've never had an empty seat in the times I've taken it to EndGames in Oakland for an open game night. EndGames has an active miniatures and 18XX scene, so I may (again) be an outlier with this experience. However, you may find success by bringing your base game and setting up a tile for your FLGS's open game night - Myth is really good at adding and subtracting players during gameplay, but you have to be willing to teach the game.

There are people playing it on YouTube - but in my opinion, it's not the sort of game that really works well in that medium. You're never going to see Myth on "TableTop", no matter how many people are playing it. It's hard enough to produce a show for a game with pure table play, winners and losers; but in Myth, where you have card play, dice, and tactical decisions along with purely open-ended cooperation?

The reason I still play Myth is to experience the gameplay; to tell small, silly stories with my friends; there's no "winning". Who sits on the winners couch after 3 tiles of Myth? (Urlok, I suppose; I think he's unbeatable) The most successful YouTube gaming shows seem to be about the people more than the games, with the exception of reviews. Myth doesn't fit that mould.

I searched "Myth Board Game" on Youtube and got quite a list, (most I'd seen) but two playthroughs stood out for me:

Board Games With Friends play Myth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbwOhVv9jCQ&list=PL_NAX3w85s...

Samurai Sheepdog plays Myth 2.0 (he also has several 1.x plays)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIYRhhoBdCA&index=21&list=PL...

Hopefully you'll get some joy from them.

Cheers!
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David Griffin
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I think I've seen those but I put them in my queue. The videos on YouTube center around either the original introduction of the game or the arrival of the 2.0 pack but I'm not sure there's anyone playing long term games. Or they are Megacon's own videos.

Now I'm not saying Myth has to be the "hot new game" but if it's not hot enough so that it's getting played where you are, you are probably going to end up playing by yourself a lot. Myth can do that, but it would be nice if it were a bit more popular so that you could just look at the event board at your game shop and see it.

I don't have the necessary evangelist credentials to bring it into the game store and try to get a group together by force of will. And even if I was, this isn't the sort of game you can introduce to people quickly and they can have a rousing good time. It takes time to learn and get wired into your brain. I think that makes it a tough sell to a random group of gamers.
 
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Rob Davis
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carbon_dragon wrote:
this isn't the sort of game you can introduce to people quickly and they can have a rousing good time. It takes time to learn and get wired into your brain.


Totally disagree. I've ran demos and Slaughterfield with new players at they enjoyed it. Introducing a game to someone doesn't mean that you throw the entire rule book at them.
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Jochen Wiesner
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I think that many people wait for the story modules to start with long term play. At least that's what I do. And this might become a problem with the german localization. The base game isn't much more than a teaser. You need more and in this case more localized stuff, be it modules or monsters.
 
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David Griffin
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davro33 wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
this isn't the sort of game you can introduce to people quickly and they can have a rousing good time. It takes time to learn and get wired into your brain.


Totally disagree. I've ran demos and Slaughterfield with new players at they enjoyed it. Introducing a game to someone doesn't mean that you throw the entire rule book at them.


Perhaps you are more outgoing and better at getting a bunch of people to play a new game regularly. Playing a game once is open mindedness. Playing a game 10 times requires more of a committment.

NOTE: very few games seem to be good for a "regular" game. RPGs thrive on this. I played Star Trek Attack Wing, Full Thrust, Star fleet Battles and a few others for years. But most games end up on the table for just a now and then.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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davro33 wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
this isn't the sort of game you can introduce to people quickly and they can have a rousing good time. It takes time to learn and get wired into your brain.


Totally disagree. I've ran demos and Slaughterfield with new players at they enjoyed it. Introducing a game to someone doesn't mean that you throw the entire rule book at them.


100% true. In fact, I find MYTH lends itself very well to a "just sit down and let's play experience" - IF you have a competent rules-guy / girl who is able to DM the game.
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Julian Dick
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Quote:
I think that many people wait for the story modules to start with long term play. At least that's what I do. And this might become a problem with the german localization. The base game isn't much more than a teaser. You need more and in this case more localized stuff, be it modules or monsters.


Dou you have any info from the german publisher UlissesSpiele/HeidelbergerSpieleverlag if they are planning to translate expansions and add-ons as well?

If you say that the base game really just feels like an incomplete game, like a starter kit, and there are no expansions going to be released in the next 12 month, i am definitely not buying this (now).
 
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Rob Davis
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Enroth186 wrote:
Dou you have any info from the german publisher UlissesSpiele/HeidelbergerSpieleverlag if they are planning to translate expansions and add-ons as well?


The Journeyman expansions are already being printed in German from the get go. (As was the core box rule book.)
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Rob Davis
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Perhaps you are more outgoing and better at getting a bunch of people to play a new game regularly. Playing a game once is open mindedness. Playing a game 10 times requires more of a committment.

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

You were specifically talking about introducing the game to new players and stating that they could never have a good time. An introduction is not a regularly reoccurring event. By definition an introduction is a one time thing.

carbon_dragon wrote:
Perhaps you...

You made a blanket statement about the game itself, not about the person doing the teaching. Just because you can't do it does not make that true. I couldn't teach somebody to fly an airplane, but that doesn't mean nobody else can. You could have said something like "This game can be difficult for some people to teach to others. I'm not sure where to start." and that I would have agreed with, and even helped out with.

But switching your argument to talking about regular play still doesn't change things. You say that RPGs work great for regular play, but RPGs are more complicated than Myth by magnitudes. They work b/c only 1 guy has to know all of the rules - the same is true for Myth. I play it with a group of 4 other guys and we only pull it out a few times a year. I'm the only one with a solid grasp on the rules, the rest worry about the basic rules and their decks, and we have a good time. There is no need for them to memorize how every trap works, what every card in the item deck does, how every monster works, etc. They worry about what is on the table and have fun.
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