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Subject: Why does GW screw up so much? rss

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Everett
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Like seriously, can't they learn to create a fanbase like other corps do? I used to always think that everybody was so harsh on GW, that they overcharged yes, but they weren't as evil as everybody said anymore. That was before the FFG split.


It seems like every generation has been screwed over by the fickle GW overlords in one way or another. But why? There has to be something behind the madness. Right?
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Magic Pink
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please list all the times they've screwed up so we can have a meaningful conversation

in order obviously
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Francisco Gutierrez
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Yeah, the "something behind the madness" is a desire for profit.

It's a company that is more than 30 years old and, despite making less money nowadays, it's still profitable. Companies are int he business of making profits, not building fanbases.

If you don't like GW, don't support them. Don't buy their books, miniatures, paints, boardgames, or licensed products. If you wish you could continue to support them, then you are only feeding the corporate machine that you "take issue with".
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Tim M-L
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So, the implication is that ending the relationship with FFG is the screw up, but I don't see it.

Neither company wanted it to continue. FFG has other and competing projects they want to wok on, projects that are making them more money. GW is looking to broaden their direct offerings in this area. Both companies have moved on. This job is done and its time to work on something else. Have you never met anyone who left a job, finished their projects or not, and called it a day? That's exactly what happened here. Especially FFG, they are not even really a thing any more, just part of Asmodee.
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Mark Watson
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Toenail21 wrote:
Like seriously, can't they learn to create a fanbase like other corps do?


Can you think of any tabletop wargame as widespread or recognised as Warhammer?
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GW's avid fan base is alive and well. Stop by a store and have a look sometime
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Ken Lewis
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I stopped buying GW products in the late 90's. Then they went and released Space Hulk 3rd edition. I told myself that was it, no more GW. Then they released Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth. I told myself that was it. Then they released Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower. I told myself that was it. Then they announced a new Blood Bowl and Gorechosen. Now I tell myself, I can't wait to see what they release next.

They seem to be doing something right from my perspective.
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Matt Price
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Giant_Monster wrote:
I stopped buying GW products in the late 90's. Then they went and released Space Hulk 3rd edition. I told myself that was it, no more GW. Then they released Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth. I told myself that was it. Then they released Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower. I told myself that was it. Then they announced a new Blood Bowl and Gorechosen. Now I tell myself, I can't wait to see what they release next.

They seem to be doing something right from my perspective.


I think this is a pretty good summary of why they've split from FFG. As Tim mentioned above, both companies have evolved since their initial contracts. In particular, GW has gotten a new CEO who seems to be much more fan-friendly. GW has even gone back on to social media, which was unthinkable just a few years ago. Seems GW is putting much more effort into boardgames, and probably wants back a few of those licenses it's loaned out!
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Paul DeStefano
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I believe they have by far the largest and most rabid fanbase out there, barring perhaps Magic.
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Jerry Martin
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Geosphere wrote:
I believe they have by far the largest and most rabid fanbase out there, barring perhaps Magic.


Magic is the biggest modern game in the world by far. Pretty much since its inception. I think Pokemon beat it out for a little while in the 90's. Wizards claims it has over 12 million players worldwide. The info I could find on Warhammer put it around 500,000.

But Chess comes in at something like 600 million. And Go has something like 60 million. So really pretty much any game has a lot of catching up to do.
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dylan benton
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Syvanis wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
I believe they have by far the largest and most rabid fanbase out there, barring perhaps Magic.


Magic is the biggest modern game in the world by far. Pretty much since its inception. I think Pokemon beat it out for a little while in the 90's. Wizards claims it has over 12 million players worldwide. The info I could find on Warhammer put it around 500,000.

But Chess comes in at something like 600 million. And Go has something like 60 million. So really pretty much any game has a lot of catching up to do.


Do chess and go really count anymore? I doubt there are 600 million avid players. If chess is thrown in the mix you have to include every game of tic tac toe or hangman ever played.
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Michael Schwarz
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Magic Pink wrote:
please list all the times they've screwed up so we can have a meaningful conversation

in order obviously
Not an itemized list, but, every time they've had a "brilliant" idea which will grow their marketshare, and instead results in a drop in sales. Such as raising their price point on the idea that it will simply result in more money coming in, but their actual revenue drops.

Every time they've shut down the specialty games label, only to have to backtrack 10 or 15 years later and open it back up again, because it turns out people actually will buy Space Hulk.

Every time they've licensed their IP to a mobile games developer.
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Syvanis wrote:
But Chess comes in at something like 600 million.


That's nearly 1 in 10. I don't buy it.

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Michael Schwarz
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paulclarke339 wrote:
Syvanis wrote:
But Chess comes in at something like 600 million.


That's nearly 1 in 10. I don't buy it.

You don't have to buy it. Statistically friends and family members have probably given you 2.3 sets by now.
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Jerry Martin
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Yeah, I looked at a couple different sites and both gave the same number. Very possible it is coming from the same source.

Apparently it is based off a survey of a million people from US, UK, Russia, Germany and India

https://en.chessbase.com/
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Let's go back to the concept of rabid fan base.

Chess?

Players really isn't the same as rabid fans.
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Michael Schwarz
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Syvanis wrote:
Yeah, I looked at a couple different sites and both gave the same number. Very possible it is coming from the same source.

Apparently it is based off a survey of a million people from US, UK, Russia, Germany and India

https://en.chessbase.com/


Just off your description, I could see a few potential methodological issues. Like those numbers not necessarily reflecting demographics in LDCs, and question of how the survey was administered. With a response pool that large it sounds like it was a self-administered survey, which can seriously skew results based on where it's presented.
 
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Ken Lewis
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Geosphere wrote:
Let's go back to the concept of rabid fan base.

Chess?

Players really isn't the same as rabid fans.


I'm not sure I'd call them rabid fans. The people I would label rabid fans have usually been associated with collectible games.
 
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Chris M
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Recovering 40k addict here. I discoverd GW back in high school and still have a deep love for the 40k universe but a few year back GW seemed to be making one dissapointing business decision after another. I under stand that those decisions were to maintain profits however it ultimately drove me away from them game.

1st they constantly raised The prices of the products to the point where you were paying double the price on a single model when compared to when I started.

2nd they converted their individual models from metal to "fine cast" resin. The insanely poor quality of this resin caused the models to have casting defects, air bubbles, cracks, and uncured pockets. The fact that the models would melt in a hot car was the final nail for fine cast.

3rd: Intentional power creep to force new product sales.

4th and final straw: GW decided that my favorite and most complete army wasn't worth updating and wasn't deserving of a codex going into the latest edition. They took my sisters of battle army that I spent hundreds of dollars on and released the makeshift rules in a small print run of white dwarf. This magazine sold out almost instantly leaving me without rules for my favorite army.
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Jerry Martin
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Sure, I was just thinking 600 million players = quite a few very dedicated players. Certainly more than the 1/2 Million Warhammer players.

I am not anymore, but at one point I was pretty dedicated chess player. I played multiple times a week. I would consider that good enough for this. Though I wouldn't count myself now.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. And I have apparently lead to the derail of this thread.

The statement that Warhammer had the most fans other than perhaps Magic made me interested in finding the numbers on it. I was sure Magic blew it out of the water, but then I thought about traditional games and checked it all out.
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Kelsey Rinella
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I'm going to plug my colleague Matt Thrower's recent piece on the history of GW. Amazing combination of honest, mature, enthusiastic, and fair.
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Richard Keiser

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rinelk wrote:
I'm going to plug my colleague Matt Thrower's recent piece on the history of GW. Amazing combination of honest, mature, enthusiastic, and fair.


Thanks for that piece.
 
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Christian K
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Toenail21 wrote:
That was before the FFG split.


Why do you assume the split was entirely a GW call especially now Asmodee are the ones calling the shots for FFG?
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Jeff Connell
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Sagrilarus wrote:

GW's avid fan base is alive and well. Stop by a store and have a look sometime


Not really, in the US a good portion of their stores closed last year.
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Mr Suitcase
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CDiablo wrote:
Toenail21 wrote:
That was before the FFG split.


Why do you assume the split was entirely a GW call especially now Asmodee are the ones calling the shots for FFG?


I think the answer to this is obvious. FFG had a lot of GW IP product in the pipeline. You don't load up the pipeline if you expect to be the one to call a split.


Now, as to the question asked earlier over whether this is a "good move" on GW's part? Well, if GW are recently starting to release quality standalone board games again, they may feel they no longer "need" partners to release games in their IPs. Call it a repatriation of their intellectual property.

They are a publicly traded company, so we'll see if this move was genius or a failure on their part within a few year's time.
 
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