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BANG! The Dice Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: How to make the hidden roles more secret.. Maybe? rss

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Glenn Sjögren
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I like The resistance/Avalon a lot to pay with my friends. But with my family who is not gamers i thought i would try Bang the dice game because of its simplicity. They liked the game and so did i, but i would like the hidden roles mechanic stronger so her's my thoughts how to do so.
If you let's say plays a 6 player game the original roles are the
sheriff, deputy, renegade and three outlaws.
My suggestion is to take those roles and add a second renegade role.
So you got this:
1 sheriff
1 deputy
2 renegades
3 outlaws

Then each player draws one role card. The sheriff must be one of the drawn cards and will reveal him self like in an ordinary game. (If not you have do redo the role drawing phase.) All other roles will be kept in secret and one role card of the seven will not be used.

In this way there will be much more uncertainty of who is who and it will open up for more trash talking and lying about the roles.
I haven't tried this yet but what do you think?
I know that it will be very hard to win as the sheriff if the deputy role will be the left over role card but that also open ups for others to declare the deputy role to screw the other players.
And if there are two renegades in the game the winning condition for those ar the same as usual... Last man standing!
This will also make the outlaws more uncertain who they can trust when they don't know how many of them there are in the game.

Please tell me what you think and especially if someone already tried this way of playing the game out would be fun to get an opinion on how it works.



 
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Justin Hiltz
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Quincy
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I see a few problems with this idea:

1) I believe the Renegade's win condition would make adding an additional one confusing to newcomers. That role is already the most difficult to play, not having a clear directive will only make it more troublesome.

2) The whole "if the sheriff isn't drawn" thing is fiddly and disappointing to people that were happy with the original role they received. You'll get a lot of groans as people hand their cards back for shuffling.

3) The uncertainty in this game is already built-in, both by the roles and by player's decisions. When your family gets a few rounds under their belt, they'll start to see areas where they can lie and confuse their opponents. Once they have a firm grasp on the rules, give them a few hints on how to play each role. Use any catastrophic failures in their choices as teachable moments.
 
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Stephen Eckman
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Oviedo
Florida
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justinhiltz wrote:
2) The whole "if the sheriff isn't drawn" thing is fiddly and disappointing to people that were happy with the original role they received. You'll get a lot of groans as people hand their cards back for shuffling.

You can fix that easily enough:
Take out the sheriff card.
Shuffle the remaining roles and remove one.
Shuffle the sheriff card back in.
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Glenn Sjögren
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Good opinions guys.

Your right justinhiltz in what you say if your playing with newcomers and that reshuffeling sucks. The reshuffelling though can be solved by first taking out the sheriff etc.

I did actually try this with my family tonight and it work well i must say.
It was fun that we didn't know who the left over role card was. That made the game more interesting when we didn't know what the constellation of role card where and it took a couple more rounds before the roles of the players started to clear up.

As i said before. I love Avalon and even if there's a built in uncertainty in Bang! The dice game i felt it was to week. So my goal was to make the hidden role part of the game stronger. But if you would introduce this variant of play to a more experienced group what do you think about it then?
 
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Richard Sampson
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Ann Arbor
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You might want to take a look at the expansion BANG! The Dice Game – Old Saloon. It kind of uses the opposite approach where each role has a special power that can be used when revealed, and I think this fits Bang a lot better.

The thing is you can't really accomplish your goal in Bang without kind of revealing who you are (as opposed to The Resistance), and it is kind of core to how the game works. However, once people kind of figure out who you are, you can use your power.
 
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Glenn Sjögren
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Well the Old saloon looks interesting. I guess you mean with the old saloon expansion you can use your power when the others already have figured out who you are.

I know that Bang! TDG will newer become like The resistance. But what bothers me is that the hidden roles are not that hidden at all. You will pretty quick figure out who is who and then the hidden role part of the game is gone and there be no room for lying and convincing other players whou you are or not.

With my role selection variant. There's a lot of uncertainty among the players. Everyone kwon who the sheriff is, and they know there is some outlaws around the table. They also know thats there at least one renegade but they don't know weather there is a second renegade, a third outlaw or an deputy in the game or not.

This uncertainty about witch characters are in the game makes it easier for players to lie and mislead other players. But sure, sooner or later you have to show your true color as you say. But by then you may have created yourself a little head start by misleading the other players to shoot at each other.

You have to try it. Its more to it than you think!
 
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Richard Sampson
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Ann Arbor
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I think your variant sounds reasonable for 7 players, but I just don't see how it would work in a 5 player game. I mean if there is an extra deputy or renegade, the lone outlaw is pretty much going to lose no matter what, and if there is an extra deputy, the renegade is probably screwed too.

The other thing is you can add all the uncertainty you want, but outlaws have to shoot the sheriff to win, and once they do they, they have pretty much outted themselves. The hidden role aspect in the game largely exists for 2 reasons. First, it allows outlaws to get the jump on the sheriff. They get to make their move before the sheriff and deputies knows who they are. Second, it allows the renegade to hide among the deputies which he needs to do to win.
 
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Dan Thompson
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We actually did something kind of similar for four-player games.

The normal setup for 4 players is:
Sheriff, Renegade, Outlaw, Outlaw

We felt like these games were too difficult for the Sheriff to win; the outlaws had no reason to shoot the renegade, so even when the outlaws were killed, the sheriff had an uphill battle vs. the renegade.

We also tried it with a deputy instead of the renegade, but it felt like that was unbalanced against the outlaws; as the deputy didn't have to care about staying alive and could just serve as a healer.

The ultimate solution we came up with was to set sheriff+outlaw+outlaw aside, then pull deputy+renegade and shuffle them. Pick one of those two face down, then shuffle that with the (face down) sheriff+outlaw+outlaw that you set aside earlier. This way, there is an element of uncertainty as to whether you have a deputy or a renegade, which keeps the sheriff from putting too much trust in a deputy.
 
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