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Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » General

Subject: 5-player, 7 hours, wondering why so long... rss

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James Lin
United States
California
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It was the first time we played the game.
We found military power was a very strong weapon. No matter how well your trade or cities developed, I could destroyed or pillaged with my legions.
In the game, once some one start develop military, everyone do the same, otherwise you may be pillaged by stronger enemies. And once some one got some advantages, all the other players start to fight against him. For example, I was the leader of both military and trade as Rome, and then three countries( Greece, Cath , Atlas ) attacked me in the next round, which totally destroyed me. We kept busy attacking each other and we found it very hard to win the game. And it took so long.... Any suggestions ???
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Paweł Bedz
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Hmm... Since you pillaged a lot it should be possible to easily win by building Pyramids (12 resources/coins). Maybe you forgot about that?
You start with 5 different resources. Easily in first turn you can go up to 7, trade some and pillage and voila - Pyramids!
Or you can always recruit heroes/build wonders... It will take in most cases 4 turns, starting from 2nd turn.
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James Lin
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No we didn't forget. But It was always hard to get 12 totally different resources in the game. We pillaged each other...usually you can pillaged 2 resources in a turn, still not enough for pyramids let alone others will pillaged you soon...
I wonder how you guys play the game... In my view, it's so easy to let all the players spend their resources to develop legions and military heroes, they are so strong. A trade heroes may give you some benefits such as more resources, but military heroes help a lot in the war which determine whether you can survive.
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Sergio Macias
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Acudogon wrote:
No we didn't forget. But It was always hard to get 12 totally different resources in the game.


You only need 10 resources for your fifth hero, I always find that route much more attainable.
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James Lin
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Yes, that's true.
The Egypt got 3 heroes first. And we thought he was the closest to victory. So all of us start doing military challenge against him, especially the Greece and the Carthage, which make the Egypt suffer.
What's more, the attacker is unstoppable with 3-4 triremes and 4-5 legions. What he need to do is find the weakest area of the defender and use its triremes and legions to rush. Thus if we find someone closest to win, it's easier for the attacker to destroy the country than for the other to defend, especially when there are 2-3 attackers.
 
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Glenn Propst
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What Five Countries did the players use? I ask this because you listed Atlas in your OP. If you meant the Atlanteans then there's part of the problem. AFAIK they are only used with 6 players. Using them with only 5 players and excluding one of the others may have thrown off the game balance. If i read that wrong please disregard the above.
 
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Sergio Macias
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wvusteel87 wrote:
What Five Countries did the players use? I ask this because you listed Atlas in your OP. If you meant the Atlanteans then there's part of the problem. AFAIK they are only used with 6 players. Using them with only 5 players and excluding one of the others may have thrown off the game balance. If i read that wrong please disregard the above.


Well, there is a variant setup that allows you to use Atlanteans in a 5 player game, leaving the Babilonians out if I recall correctly.
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James Lin
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That's right
 
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Emils E
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My first game took a bit long as well so I kind of feel the same. But I feel that while military is strong and neccesary to win, once you start fighting, especially with more force (like commiting 4-5 legions to a battle) you leave yourself open elsewhere. You really need to find a best time to attack, when others are busy.
But personally I found the Building phase to be the most cumbersome. So you kind of want to see what other have built to make sure you can react and that felt like the longest phase for us.
 
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Patrick G.
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I have never played a game longer than 2.5 hours. lol. And I have groups prone to serious AP.
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Nico
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Victor Mancha wrote:
wvusteel87 wrote:
What Five Countries did the players use? I ask this because you listed Atlas in your OP. If you meant the Atlanteans then there's part of the problem. AFAIK they are only used with 6 players. Using them with only 5 players and excluding one of the others may have thrown off the game balance. If i read that wrong please disregard the above.


Well, there is a variant setup that allows you to use Atlanteans in a 5 player game, leaving the Babilonians out if I recall correctly.


I'm not sure how the situation is with 5 players but I had a 4 player game with the variant setup (removing Egypt and Babylonia) and it took nearly 4 hours. Atlantis does not add that many new ressources but the variant setup removes a legendary city, gold, wood and papyrus which is already rare in the normal 4 palyer game. But I think since this is all retained in the 5 player alternative setup, this should not happen. wow
 
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Our first game had 5 players and was done in just over 2 hours...
 
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Erich Neubacher
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We had our first 5-player game ( base without Atlas ) today in our group. All experienced gamers ( besides me ). The game was so intense, the turns so fast, the game completely takes us and filled our time. Maybe around 3 hours playtime ( without rule explanation and rule discussions ). 4 players were one step away from victory, because 2 having 4 heroes/wonders and 2 are heavy on trade …. And …. Oops … holla … the pyramid…. Hmmm, that’s all? … After fighting legendary battles, pillaging cities, after treachery diplomacy, doing fake actions, laying traps, building a huge empire … it takes ONE second to build the PYRAMIDS ?

Anyway it was fun to me. And there are tons of things to explore ( e.g. which kind of heroes to take in which strategy, balance between military and infrastructure and so on ). Great game, congratulation to the designer(s)
 
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raist anient
Singapore
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Acudogon wrote:
It was the first time we played the game.
We found military power was a very strong weapon. No matter how well your trade or cities developed, I could destroyed or pillaged with my legions.
In the game, once some one start develop military, everyone do the same, otherwise you may be pillaged by stronger enemies. And once some one got some advantages, all the other players start to fight against him. For example, I was the leader of both military and trade as Rome, and then three countries( Greece, Cath , Atlas ) attacked me in the next round, which totally destroyed me. We kept busy attacking each other and we found it very hard to win the game. And it took so long.... Any suggestions ???


Hi, I just had my first game last night with 5P and we couldn't finish in 3.5 hours. We ended up packing up and leaving cos it was late and the store was closing. Nobody was even close to winning.

I had the same problem as you. Once someone starts to build military, the rest feel compelled to follow. And if you are not investing resources into building infrastructure (that gives you more resources in the future), you are not moving the game towards ending.

Also, the fact that you can pillage makes the problem worse - those resources that do get invested into infrastructure can get destroyed, which is again pushing back the game end.

And once someone looks like they are moving towards winning, the rest of the players gang up to stop it.

The last point is the biggest problem. I feel like if everybody plays optimally, the game can really take very very long to end.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Must say I am surprised that no-one could take advantage of the players going out to stop the "leader".

In the games I played thus far, it happened that one player could eventually get a triple leadership or 4 capitals/legendaries win when the other players were weakening themselves by sending away a big chunk of their troops.

Except the first game, most of our matches didn't last over 2 hours. Less without setup time.
 
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Ben Rubinstein

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anient wrote:
Acudogon wrote:
It was the first time we played the game.
We found military power was a very strong weapon. No matter how well your trade or cities developed, I could destroyed or pillaged with my legions.
In the game, once some one start develop military, everyone do the same, otherwise you may be pillaged by stronger enemies. And once some one got some advantages, all the other players start to fight against him. For example, I was the leader of both military and trade as Rome, and then three countries( Greece, Cath , Atlas ) attacked me in the next round, which totally destroyed me. We kept busy attacking each other and we found it very hard to win the game. And it took so long.... Any suggestions ???


Hi, I just had my first game last night with 5P and we couldn't finish in 3.5 hours. We ended up packing up and leaving cos it was late and the store was closing. Nobody was even close to winning.

I had the same problem as you. Once someone starts to build military, the rest feel compelled to follow. And if you are not investing resources into building infrastructure (that gives you more resources in the future), you are not moving the game towards ending.

Also, the fact that you can pillage makes the problem worse - those resources that do get invested into infrastructure can get destroyed, which is again pushing back the game end.

And once someone looks like they are moving towards winning, the rest of the players gang up to stop it.

The last point is the biggest problem. I feel like if everybody plays optimally, the game can really take very very long to end.


Uhh, was it really necessary to make a brand new post that was nearly identical to this? They're focusing on the exact same topic.
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