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Colony» Forums » General

Subject: So disappointed that this only plays up to four rss

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M.C.Crispy
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I really enjoy FotP, but it seldom gets to the table as my group is a 5. Was super excited by the prospect of Colony, but have abandoned the idea as I'll never get it to the table
 
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Greg Love
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I have a similar dilemma.
Perhaps 2 players can work together as '1 player', i.e. take it in turns to control one 'player' ?
 
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M.C.Crispy
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I think that the recent focus on shorter playing time (who plays games that take more than 90 minutes these days?) has created a bias toward lower player counts. Or it seems that way to me as nearly every game I've been interested in in recent times is a max of 4 players.
 
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Greg Love
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I guess it's also cheaper to manufacture a 4 player game than a 5 player game - fewer components.
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Claudio Coppini
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On the other hand I'm so happy that this plays solo as well.
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Gunther Schmidl
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Drugo81 wrote:
On the other hand I'm so happy that this plays solo as well.


OP: buy 2 copies, 1x 4 players, 1x solo -- problem solved!

*exit stage right, ducking tomatoes*
 
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Mikko Saari
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Well, with two copies you could probably manage a five-player game, as you'd have starting cards for the fifth player and could add some more cards to the stacks.

I do know this is something of a question of how many cards there are in the game. With four players, you can fit in more different kinds of cards, which makes for a more interesting game.
 
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Jim McMahon
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mccrispy wrote:
I really enjoy FotP, but it seldom gets to the table as my group is a 5. Was super excited by the prospect of Colony, but have abandoned the idea as I'll never get it to the table
For those of us who don't have all abbreviations memorized while in another game's forum... FotP?
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ParisianDreams
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jimmcmahon wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I really enjoy FotP, but it seldom gets to the table as my group is a 5. Was super excited by the prospect of Colony, but have abandoned the idea as I'll never get it to the table
For those of us who don't have all abbreviations memorized while in another game's forum... FotP?


Another game by Bezier - Favor of the Pharoh. It's also a dice drafting game.

Maybe an expansion will add a 5th player like Suburbia 5 did for Suburbia. I was not surprised to see the 1-4 player count, as pretty every game he publishes is 1-4 - subdivision, Suburbia, Castles, FotP...
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Marc Bennett
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nothing in the rules really limits player count, just buy an extra set and enjoy the downtime! of course if you had 6 or more even numbered players you could have 2 players going across from each other at the same time. would make those trading cards very interesting
 
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M.C.Crispy
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I'm working on the basis that is not a component limitation, rather it's a design decision to not create a game that is workably playable at counts > 4. So buying multiple sets isn't going to produce a playable game.
 
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David desJardins
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mccrispy wrote:
I'm working on the basis that is not a component limitation, rather it's a design decision to not create a game that is workably playable at counts > 4. So buying multiple sets isn't going to produce a playable game.


Do you have any evidence for this "basis"?
 
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M.C.Crispy
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DaviddesJ wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I'm working on the basis that is not a component limitation, rather it's a design decision to not create a game that is workably playable at counts > 4. So buying multiple sets isn't going to produce a playable game.


Do you have any evidence for this "basis"?
I assume that if it had been tested at player counts higher than 4 and found to be a good game at those counts then either (a) it would be sold as such, (b) there would be official Variants in the rules for playing with higher player counts and/or multiple sets. Given the lack of either, I'm working on the basis that it was a design decision to cap it at 4. If you have any counter-evidence please feel free to share.
 
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Ted Alspach
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Just to halt speculation, we did look into increasing player count, and it wasn't a pleasant playing experience, mainly because there was too much downtime immediately after your turn. While this testing was done pretty early in the development cycle, we haven't revisited it since then, but I don't think it would be any better.

You would need multiple copies of the game for this to work, because the game requires 1 variable card of each type in the game per player. I'm not sure what the effect would be on the basic cards, as those are fixed, and the length of the game changes via the VP target based on the number of players (primarily due to the fixed quantity of those cards). Having the game with a lower VP target for 5 players would essentially remove turns from the game, reducing the amount of overall strategy in the game.

As a rule, games we publish are published with the components needed for the best player counts...I don't believe there's an instance of us reducing the player count to reduce the expense of the game, though I could understand why a publisher might do that (though it always irritates the heck out of me when a game comes with limited player pieces in certain colors, forcing you to play with the colors that have a lot of pieces for lower player counts).

So the bottom line is...Colony is 1-4 player game because it's good at those numbers.
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M.C.Crispy
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toulouse wrote:
Just to halt speculation, we did look into increasing player count, and it wasn't a pleasant playing experience, mainly because there was too much downtime immediately after your turn. While this testing was done pretty early in the development cycle, we haven't revisited it since then, but I don't think it would be any better.

You would need multiple copies of the game for this to work, because the game requires 1 variable card of each type in the game per player. I'm not sure what the effect would be on the basic cards, as those are fixed, and the length of the game changes via the VP target based on the number of players (primarily due to the fixed quantity of those cards). Having the game with a lower VP target for 5 players would essentially remove turns from the game, reducing the amount of overall strategy in the game.

As a rule, games we publish are published with the components needed for the best player counts...I don't believe there's an instance of us reducing the player count to reduce the expense of the game, though I could understand why a publisher might do that (though it always irritates the heck out of me when a game comes with limited player pieces in certain colors, forcing you to play with the colors that have a lot of pieces for lower player counts).

So the bottom line is...Colony is 1-4 player game because it's good at those numbers.
And that was the basis on which I was proceeding Thank you Ted!
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The Captain
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toulouse wrote:


As a rule, games we publish are published with the components needed for the best player counts..

So the bottom line is...Colony is 1-4 player game because it's good at those numbers.


So refreshing to hear! It really bothers me when publishers ignore the designer and inflate player counts for sales. I respect companies like this one; I can trust that the player counts listed are all good.
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Todd Fast
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So Ted, in your testing, at what player count(s) does Colony shine most? Or maybe put another way, what shines when the game is played at each different player count?
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Marc Bennett
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toulouse wrote:
Just to halt speculation, we did look into increasing player count, and it wasn't a pleasant playing experience, mainly because there was too much downtime immediately after your turn. While this testing was done pretty early in the development cycle, we haven't revisited it since then, but I don't think it would be any better.

You would need multiple copies of the game for this to work, because the game requires 1 variable card of each type in the game per player. I'm not sure what the effect would be on the basic cards, as those are fixed, and the length of the game changes via the VP target based on the number of players (primarily due to the fixed quantity of those cards). Having the game with a lower VP target for 5 players would essentially remove turns from the game, reducing the amount of overall strategy in the game.

As a rule, games we publish are published with the components needed for the best player counts...I don't believe there's an instance of us reducing the player count to reduce the expense of the game, though I could understand why a publisher might do that (though it always irritates the heck out of me when a game comes with limited player pieces in certain colors, forcing you to play with the colors that have a lot of pieces for lower player counts).

So the bottom line is...Colony is 1-4 player game because it's good at those numbers.


i has assumed all of this and i wasnt trying to disparage your decisions, im sure you made the correct decision for the gamme. however "best" is an opinion, and some groups dont mind down time at all. some people would be interested in getting 2 sets and giving it a go. some games have actual mechanical limitations that prevent more than the stated player counts, this one does not.
 
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Ted Alspach
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glax wrote:
So Ted, in your testing, at what player count(s) does Colony shine most? Or maybe put another way, what shines when the game is played at each different player count?


Three is probably my favorite, as there's pretty much no downtime at all, and you can effectively use the trading cards (trading with 2 just doesn't make sense, though they do have a good VP-to-Cost ratio).

There's more tension in a 4 player game, and the attack/defend cards are much more interesting because players have a lot of choices.

Two players has more turns, so you can developer deeper strategies, and the "discard" mechanism is much more critical to pay attention to. And since there are only two of each variable card, you can corner the market on a few of them resulting in extremely distinct playing strategies for each player.

Different aspects will appeal to different kinds of players, I think...
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Mikko Saari
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I'd go with 3 > 2 > 4, but the difference between 3 and 4 is not much; I'd rate it 8/10 on all player counts.
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Snooze Fest
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Just curious ... is there enough stuff in the box to split into 2 games -- 2er and 3er? Ignoring d6, which would be easy to substitute.
 
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Marc Bennett
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snoozefest wrote:
Just curious ... is there enough stuff in the box to split into 2 games -- 2er and 3er? Ignoring d6, which would be easy to substitute.


after 3 expansions become available it should be fairly easy to split into 2 games, you would just have to share the exploration deck and the system stack

EDIT wait wait wait wrong forum i was talking about a different game i apologize.

EDIT2: i believe you would be short cards, the random cards have 1 of each per player, so do play a 3 and 2 player game you would need 5 of each of those and it comes with 4. you could do some kind of proxy though
 
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Bruce Gazdecki
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Well, I guess I will be one of the few who seem to be happy this is a 4 player max game.

5 player games in my opinion:
-Generally have too much downtime between turns
-End up being too long a game time wise for what it is
-Feel cramped physically as there's even more stuff on the same size table.

 
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David desJardins
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Bruiser419 wrote:
Well, I guess I will be one of the few who seem to be happy this is a 4 player max game.


Around a dozen people have posted in this thread. That seems a thin reed on which to rest the conclusion that most of the thousands of people who will buy the game intensely desire to play with 5 players.
 
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M.C.Crispy
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Bruiser419 wrote:
Well, I guess I will be one of the few who seem to be happy this is a 4 player max game.

5 player games in my opinion:
-Generally have too much downtime between turns
-End up being too long a game time wise for what it is
-Feel cramped physically as there's even more stuff on the same size table.

All quite laughable reasons in my opinion. But I guess because I play so often with 5 I'm a little more tolerant of the magnitude of those "issues". But then I prefer longer/heavier games over shorter/lighter games, the current trend for games with a maximum of 4 players and sub- 90-minute game times is very disappointing to me. Hence my disappointment that this very interesting game doesn't cater to my player count.
 
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