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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » General

Subject: Can someone please explain the amazingly high prices and demand for this game to me. rss

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Shawn Harriman
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I just don't see it.
Sure its huge and OOP but seriously I am confused.
 
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Adrien Boyeldieu
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There are some answers in this thread, although the OP is about a ridiculous eBay listing:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1623110/noob-question-why-g...
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To me, it's a gaming experience as complete and fun as it gets. The game mixed a great narrative in a tabletop RPGish system with loads of seamlessly woven mechanics which provide for a level of depth (while not being overly complex)and fun which I haven't found in other games yet.

The art and the minis are AAA, If you like this part of the hobby.

Hundreds of hours of plain epic fun struggling for survival on a nightmarish world void of any compassion for your people...who wouldn't like that? You combine pure tactical combat with lots of depth and dice rolling + a sort of civilization-development phase + some "choose your own adventure" hunting phase + a great everchanging story full of different events and outcomes.

The pricetag is IMHO the highest hurdle to jump over. It's up to each one to decide whether the game is worth it's price. Fortunately, you have an upcoming KS on November 25 for the game's reprint, so you will not have to consider going Ebay for the insane amounts that were asked for there.

I would recommend that you gather as much info on gameplay/reviews as you can (there are a lot of resources here), but beware of spoilers! the story is so glued to the game mechanics that it's very easy to learn too much, and you want the game to surprise you!

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François Mahieu
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Dostradamas wrote:
I just don't see it.
Sure its huge and OOP but seriously I am confused.


For the same reasons people are buying Apple stuff.
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Shawn Harriman
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Wow, just wow.

gulp

Thanks for more info.


Is the world spinning faster?

I feel ill.
 
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Deon Beswick
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Don't be confused. It's not a conspiracy. KDM is a good game if you like certain things. A great game, in its own way. It's quite unique too. You'll probably love it or hate it if you ever get a chance to give it a try. And if you love it, you'll join the throng without a copy clamouring to get one.

Having said that (and as an unashamed fan) KDM isn't for everyone - I know folk who would pay to skip it. In my own current games group one of our players dislikes it intently (I think due to the sudden and unexpected deaths that lurk over every survivor within it). Other players (like me) have their imagination captured by the possibilities it presents and rolling with the punches any given game contains. You can spend hours discussing with your group what needs to be built, possible equipment "builds" and what direction your settlement should go (again, some players dislike this kind of thing intently but some enjoy a mix of tactics and strategy).

Sure it's expensive (although as a KS backer I got off easy) and over produced in the great sense of that approach (I have no personal problem with overproduced games as long as the game underneath is solid - who doesn't like a game with vision? You can also argue any actual boardgame with minis is overproduced.. you could just use cardboard standups right? But I am also a miniatures wargamer, and minis give it twice the appeal to some).

And it's one of those rare, long-delayed kickstarters that made good on its promises. It's far better than I ever expected, and support in the form of expansions continues to roll in. This adds to the demand, in it's own way as potential buyers see it's not a flash in the pan (like so many other quite reasonable KS games which vanished from the scene once produced).

So the demand comes from the fact that it has quite the well-deserved reputation, a very high RRP for a board game, especially for the spoilt US gamers/Eurogamer fans who think $50 for a game is unthinkably high, and the fact that it is OOP. Simple as that.

People who know it's in demand aren't going to sell it for a song. Or at RRP. Not a chance, especially in the insane world of ebay where you see new stuff, in production, marked up at least fifty percent more by sellers when you can still get it from the manufacturers. So of course they triple it at least when it goes OOP. Ebay is an overpriced market to start with.

But I ramble on. What we see here is classic supply and demand. The legend of KDM grows. There aren't enough to go around to the people who do want it. Some people who prefer to own money got copies in all the times it has been available to sell. Now it is OOP again. Now they want to profit. So they ask high prices on a game that had a high price to start with. And some gamers have enough disposable income not to care because they want to play this game of legend themselves. Some may be disappointed. I imagine most are not. And some spectators wonder why people spend money on things they want....

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Alessio Massuoli
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Anyway, the explanation is simple.

If your question is: "Why the prices I see on eBay and other sites?", the answer is:

A) the core game had a cost in production of $400.
B) there is a lot of demand and no supply.

So, given the top possible price of "anything anyone is willing to spend to get their hands on it", iterate A and B to today and you get the current pricing.

If you are asking "Why Base Game costed $400 to begin with?", it's just a sum of all the components plus an adjustment because preceding sales were made at loss.

If you are askingsaying "The same game costs less with another company, it is too much", that may be true as an opinion (in that someone can't think to spend that much on a game), but not true as a fact. Since to prove a statement wrong you just need one example, here it is:
- Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower hero expansion pack from Games Workshop gives you four "small" (in the arbitrary scale I am using to compare KDM) high quality plastic miniatures in two sprues (four half sprues to be accurate) and no game content for 45.00EUR (that converts into $50 and something today, as per Google).
KDM Gorm Expansion gives you FIVE "small", one "very big" (as in, base is nine times the small one) high quality plastic miniature in six full sprues, one game content booklet and 100+ expansion cards for $75.00.

If you count the number of miniatures, the cost is the same for the miniatures, and KDM gives you the game content for free.

If you count the sprues, you get three times the components for one and half times the price, and on top of that you get the game content for free.


Sorry for the long post, but I always said that the cost was on par with other high quality companies without documenting it, so I thought that I could add references, this one time


EDIT: Bolded last paragraph to correctly divide the sections of the answer.
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Freelance Police
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Inelastic demand meets short supply.

Inelastic, meaning that those who want KDM do not see any other miniature and game as substitute or alternative. Short supply, meaning that Poots didn't produce enough games to meet supply.

That gets you as far as prices. I think Deon's post explains demand, but look through the Personal Comments, reviews, etc. to know more about this game. I haven't made up my mind myself, especially since I already have so many miniatures (some even high quality!) to paint.

As for Apple, my mother will never ever ever touch a PC for fear of making a mistake. She's pretty much glued to her iPad, and communicates with her sisters on business every day. She also enters Chinese characters with finger strokes, and she and my father will not use a keyboard for Chinese. Elderly men spend the most money on Apple's products, and I hear making money is a good thing. I'm fine with my $20 tablet and $200 PC's.
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IA Seldon
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Dostradamas wrote:
I just don't see it.
Sure its huge and OOP but seriously I am confused.


Because we're nerds. And this game was made by a Super-Nerd.

And, as was foretold by the fourth prophecy: He shall be worshipped, yea, by the sound of money hitting computer screens. Glory, glory, pass the bacon. Amen.
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Murray Quarmby
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It is a lot simpler than people try to reply:
It is a great game and actually worth the price.
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Sid Rain
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The miniatures are extremely detailed, delicate, and adult-oriented. The art, story, and atmosphere of the game is a bit unique, it's like a darker Return to Oz, mixed with Tim Burton, injected with Heavy Metal magazine. The gameplay is brutal and arbitrary. It's almost the very definition of Ameritrash, but I would argue that you might want to think about it in slightly Euro terms in that your Survivors should be seen as meeples (very intricately detailed meeples). They're not the Heroes of Descent or other RPGs. They're a resource to be used to get more stuff. They might get slightly different stats, some will be better than others, but they're all expendable. The survival of the settlement is what's important, the individuals can die.

Is the game worth the price? People have paid $400 and more for it and regularly buy $25/apiece miniatures from the KD shop that don't even include gameplay rules. I'm of the opinion that a pared-down version of the game should be sold with just the rules, boards, and only the bare necessities worth of miniatures (which I believe was done at GenCon). That's still looking at about $100–200, but certainly better than $400 on a gamer's budget. Whether that happens in the upcoming Kickstarter remains to be seen.
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Ethan Nicholas
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Let's take a look at the absolute best games on BGG. Here is a list of every single game on BGG that has at least 1000 ratings and an average rating of 8.5 or better:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/search/boardgame?sort=avgratin...

You will note that it is a very short list of very popular and well-loved games, and Kingdom Death is at the top of it. Not only is it at the top, it's at the top by a huge margin. It is, in fact, the only game above a 9.0 average.

Now, I'm not actually claiming that that makes KD:M the single best game on BGG. It's very much a niche game, and if it were played by absolutely everyone the way, say, Pandemic Legacy was, we'd see its ratings drop sharply as people not predisposed to like it started chiming in with their opinions. But certainly this ridiculous outlier of a score means something.

I will tell you this. I was a Kickstarter backer, and thus got KD:M for an embarrassingly small sum of money given what came in the box. But if my copy got destroyed somehow, and the only way to get it back were to pay those ridiculous eBay prices... I'd do it in a heartbeat. It's that good.

Fortunately, there's a new Kickstarter coming soon, so just waiting for that seems like a much better plan
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Nerds call me
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People still post topics like this? gulp
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Zen Man
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t3clis wrote:
Anyway, the explanation is simple.

If your question is: "Why the prices I see on eBay and other sites?", the answer is:

A) the core game had a cost in production of $400.
B) there is a lot of demand and no supply.

So, given the top possible price of "anything anyone is willing to spend to get their hands on it", iterate A and B to today and you get the current pricing.

If you are asking "Why Base Game costed $400 to begin with?", it's just a sum of all the components plus an adjustment because preceding sales were made at loss.

If you are askingsaying "The same game costs less with another company, it is too much", that may be true as an opinion (in that someone can't think to spend that much on a game), but not true as a fact. Since to prove a statement wrong you just need one example, here it is:
- Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower hero expansion pack from Games Workshop gives you four "small" (in the arbitrary scale I am using to compare KDM) high quality plastic miniatures in two sprues (four half sprues to be accurate) and no game content for 45.00EUR (that converts into $50 and something today, as per Google).
KDM Gorm Expansion gives you FIVE "small", one "very big" (as in, base is nine times the small one) high quality plastic miniature in six full sprues, one game content booklet and 100+ expansion cards for $75.00.

If you count the number of miniatures, the cost is the same for the miniatures, and KDM gives you the game content for free.

If you count the sprues, you get three times the components for one and half times the price, and on top of that you get the game content for free.


Sorry for the long post, but I always said that the cost was on par with other high quality companies without documenting it, so I thought that I could add references, this one time


EDIT: Bolded last paragraph to correctly divide the sections of the answer.


Well I enjoy the game, but even I admit $400 is probably too much. Then again I didn't get the game at $400 but significantly less, so the cost of the game of which I got it was worth it.
 
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Peter Bowie
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dorktron2000 wrote:
People still post topics like this? gulp


Games a quarter of the price get threads like this.

The game's expensive because:
It's niche (lower print runs = higher price per unit)
The miniature quality is exceptional (it's way above the industry standard, and even above CMON)
You get a lot in the box (it'd still rank as expensive even without the miniatures)

It's worth it for people because:
It offers them a gaming experience that trumps other games for them
For a component quality/quantity to price ratio, it's worth it

Compared to board games, it's expensive. Compared to miniature games, even with all expansions included, it's way cheaper. Not even on the scale.
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David Tolin
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mquarmby wrote:
It is a lot simpler than people try to reply:
It is a great game and actually worth the price.


Lots of great replies here, but I think this pretty much hits the nail on the head. In June, I bought the base game (with Survivor level rewards) and all of the expansions for $1,500. On the one hand, that's an insane price that I had a hard time shelling out, but on the other hand, it's approximately the same as MSRP for base + exps, and I've certainly sunk more than $1,500 into a single game before (thanks, Games Workshop).

Since June, I have rarely played anything else, and I have a sizable collection of games that I really, really like. For now, KDM is all-consuming, and I am floored that it's taken over my free time to this extent.

It's not a game for everyone, but if it's a game for you, it is one-of-a-kind and very much worth seeking out.
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Shawn Harriman
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I know it is not a game for me.

I understand supply and demand.

I wondered if I missed something.

I have a friend that does a lot of kickstarters.
He is also into miniature games way more than I am.
I have seen people put that much money and time into other games like Warhammer.

I have seen people put that much into radio control trucks'

$1500 is years of game budget for me to give you some perspective.

I get it.

Thanks for all the responses as well as not assuming I am trying to bash anyone for buying it or the game itself.

Some of the miniatures painted are amazing, just not my thing.

Enjoy the biggest and best if you have it.

 
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sam newman

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Dostradamas wrote:
I know it is not a game for me.

I understand supply and demand.

I wondered if I missed something.

I have a friend that does a lot of kickstarters.
He is also into miniature games way more than I am.
I have seen people put that much money and time into other games like Warhammer.

I have seen people put that much into radio control trucks'

$1500 is years of game budget for me to give you some perspective.

I get it.

Thanks for all the responses as well as not assuming I am trying to bash anyone for buying it or the game itself.

Some of the miniatures painted are amazing, just not my thing.

Enjoy the biggest and best if you have it.



A lot of people ave been playing KDM on tabletop simulator recently. Now im not saying that is going to give you the full KDM experience but if you were to try it then it might give you an idea of why the game is so highly rated.
 
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sam newman

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Dostradamas wrote:
I know it is not a game for me.

I understand supply and demand.

I wondered if I missed something.

I have a friend that does a lot of kickstarters.
He is also into miniature games way more than I am.
I have seen people put that much money and time into other games like Warhammer.

I have seen people put that much into radio control trucks'

$1500 is years of game budget for me to give you some perspective.

I get it.

Thanks for all the responses as well as not assuming I am trying to bash anyone for buying it or the game itself.

Some of the miniatures painted are amazing, just not my thing.

Enjoy the biggest and best if you have it.



i prefer playing kdm without the miniatures tbh.

They are nice miniatures but the game is much more than a miniatures game.
 
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Shawn Harriman
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I have been role playing since the early 80's.

If I am looking for a deep, immersive role playing experience I know a guy.... (or a half dozen.)

If I ever have an offer to play from someone near with the game I would not say no.

I have really become a Euro gamer over the last few years.

I already own a lifetime of Euros that take up most of my gaming time.

Anytime I want to try I have Malifaux and Flames of War: The World War II Miniatures Game close at hand.

Trust me, I know what I like and want to play
 
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Ugur Dönmez
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dorktron2000 wrote:
People still post topics like this? gulp


You still read and react to them?
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Joe Kiyoshi
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Quality and Demand.

It's a great game with the best miniatures I've had the pleasure of assembling in a board game. It has a rich, dark, nightmare fueled lore. It's challenging.

It comes down to what you value.

For those of us encompassed by the darkness, Kingdom death is not a game, it is a lifestyle.

But really, if you dont see the value in it, then it's not for you.
 
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Shawn Harriman
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Do you read a thread before posting or just the title?

Dostradamas wrote:
I know it is not a game for me.

I understand supply and demand.

I wondered if I missed something.

I have a friend that does a lot of kickstarters.
He is also into miniature games way more than I am.
I have seen people put that much money and time into other games like Warhammer.

I have seen people put that much into radio control trucks'

$1500 is years of game budget for me to give you some perspective.

I get it.

Thanks for all the responses as well as not assuming I am trying to bash anyone for buying it or the game itself.

Some of the miniatures painted are amazing, just not my thing.


You might try
 
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Freelance Police
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Dostradamas wrote:
$1500 is years of game budget for me to give you some perspective.


So if KDM is the only game you play for over a year, you win! laugh

Looks like KDM is a "lifestyle" game. These are games that will (or can) take all your money, but you play *only* that game for years and years. Magic the Gathering and Warhammer are popular examples, and many BGG'ers have sunk a lot of money into Shadows of Brimstone. Miniatures are often associated with lifestyle games because, of course, miniature assembly and painting itself can take a *long* time and are part of the game product. While Magic doesn't involve miniatures, it does have trading, again, part of the game product. Go, Chess, and mainstream card games like poker and Bridge are other examples of lifestyle games.
 
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Shawn Harriman
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Sam and Max wrote:
Dostradamas wrote:
$1500 is years of game budget for me to give you some perspective.


So if KDM is the only game you play for over a year, you win! laugh

Looks like KDM is a "lifestyle" game. These are games that will (or can) take all your money, but you play *only* that game for years and years. Magic the Gathering and Warhammer are popular examples, and many BGG'ers have sunk a lot of money into Shadows of Brimstone. Miniatures are often associated with lifestyle games because, of course, miniature assembly and painting itself can take a *long* time and are part of the game product. While Magic doesn't involve miniatures, it does have trading, again, part of the game product. Go, Chess, and mainstream card games like poker and Bridge are other examples of lifestyle games.


I win playing my Euros alreadyninja

Miniature games are just not for me I have tried.

As I sit here I see Shadows, Zombicide, Blood Rage, Fireteam Zero, Malifaux, rooms of 40k, Eldritch , Betrayal, Elder Sign. These are games my close friends adore & play often. I would rather play Yahtzee & I really don't like dice.

Euro game player that was curious.

Years of game budget would be spent on 30-40 more Euros.

If I wanted to assemble and or paint miniatures I could at any time.

I do not.

Buy it and play it is what I like

Quick on & off the table is what I like

Little to 0 dice combat is what I like.

I may try some coin games soon but that is about it.

With $1500 I could by my grail game (again, lament....)
Eon Cosmic Encounter with all 9 expansions and still be able to buy an enormous amount of Euros with the change.

Check my collection, that should make it clear.
https://boardgamegeek.com/profile.php?action=extstats&subact...
Nexus ops is the closest thing I have to a miniature game.
 
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