$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 128.55

7,600 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
47.9% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Mechs vs. Minions» Forums » General

Subject: Riot Games - a revolution in boardgaming. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
oystein eker
Norway
Unspecified
sola
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Riot Games say that MvM is a one off product.

But if they decide to continue with board games:

1. No doubt they have some excellent and experienced board game designers in the office. (Guess there was an offer they could not refuse).

2. Kickstarter Killer. In 2 week warning you will have all stretch goals imagined.

3. Price. If they publish a "normal" size game, FFG type with MvM standard at $20.- . What impact will it have on board gaming industry in general?

4. Communication. They respond instantly at BGG.

5. Innovation. Example: Legacy is trimmed down to be reused.

6. Innovation. With software background - what can they do with hybrid games. Can they pick up the glove after Hare Brained, and further develop Golem Arcana. No doubt they have what it takes to do it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is not the revolution you think it is. This is a company bigger than Hasbro making a one-off game as a passion project; they have resources to do things other companies can't.

There are lots of small companies that produce games that are more expensive for the components compared to Asmodee, but people still buy those games. Just look at Food Chain Magnate from Splotter. WAY overpriced from a components stand point, but a great game that is very highly rated from a small company. For many people this game is well worth the cost.

Riot is just another step up from Asmodee, and on top of that, any profit they get is a drop in the bucket compared to what LoL makes so they don't need to make massive profit off of this. Don't expect this to be some massive change in the industry because other companies can't do what they have done and stay in business (not to mention game stores would basically go out of business as well as direct sells is a significant part of the savings).
24 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
WD Yoga
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll second on some points: quality of the product and communication. Riot handles these two aspects brilliantly.

On price, if they decide to make more board games, I am not sure that they will continue charging lower than estimated price like with MvM. They have stated several times that MvM is a love letter from them to gamers. I expect Riot will adopt different pricing policy for future products.

Innovation? I am not sure that MvM is very innovative. It uses several known game mechanics, such as programming and card combo. Its Legacy-esque mechanic is more similar to AQ's campaign system than true Legacy games (like Pandemic Legacy). I do, however, think that the designers had done great job in combining the various game mechanics into one solid game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
You may call me
Canada
Burlington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If you listen to the podcast interview, they did get inspiration from Rob Daviau but not in the way that you think. Rob Daviau talked about an MIT experiment with board gamers that highlighted that board gamers feel most excited about a board game when they unbox it (and then their enthusiasm drops when they need read the rulebook). So, Riot games incorporated that opening of packages for each scenario (like in a legacy game) into their game. However, that's where the legacy likeness ends. If you really wanted to you could play any of the missions in any order, although I doubt people will (EDIT) at least in their first play through.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Rochelle
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
flag msg tools
59 4 76(!!) 14 7 52
badge
mbmbmb
I agree that it's not obviously a "revolution".

eker wrote:
1. No doubt they have some excellent and experienced board game designers in the office. (Guess there was an offer they could not refuse).
It seems a little early to declare "excellent and experienced". Even if that's the case for this game, it's not a guarantee for branching out.

Quote:
2. Kickstarter Killer. In 2 week warning you will have all stretch goals imagined.
Because they haul in a whole lot of money? That's just a matter of how the publisher stretches out their stretch goals. A CMoN game with small-publisher-scaled stretch goals would "break" those, too, and it doesn't do anything to "break" Kickstarter.

Quote:
3. Price. If they publish a "normal" size game, FFG type with MvM standard at $20.- . What impact will it have on board gaming industry in general?
I don't think it'll do much. If nobody else can match it (and indications are that they can't), then what happens? Riot's games are super-cheap. OK. But most of the board gaming market doesn't care about any one segment of the market, much less any one game. Until Riot also has the breadth to challenge industry leaders (and the demonstrated ability to make good games per point 1), it won't force a sea change. And even then, games aren't universally fungible. I don't go shopping for the cheapest game out there; I don't even go shopping for the cheapest "game-in-category-X" out there. "Shopping for the cheapest", for me, typically doesn't happen until I'm shopping for a specific game. And if Riot's not making that game, I don't care what their prices are.

Quote:
4. Communication. They respond instantly at BGG.
They're not the only ones. It's great! But it's not a revolution.

Quote:
5. Innovation. Example: Legacy is trimmed down to be reused.
Jury is still out. In addition to the points below about whether that's a good characterization of the system (vs "modular", which has certainly been done before, and even "reusable legacy" has been discussed in various ways), are they "more innovative" than the industry at large? Lots of games are innovative; one more innovative game is not a revolution.

Quote:
6. Innovation. With software background - what can they do with hybrid games. Can they pick up the glove after Hare Brained, and further develop Golem Arcana. No doubt they have what it takes to do it.
This is the one with the best case to materialize. Board game publishers have demonstrated that it's hard to add software development as a skill set / capability. Maybe it'll be easier for that transition to go the other way (either as a skill or as a budgetable contracted item).
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan
United Kingdom
Leamington Spa
Warwickshire
flag msg tools
mb
From what I can see, they're disrupting the industry and that's a good thing.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathanael Robinson
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Riot will sell its game, and in half a year we'll go back to hearing from the likes of Anton Torres that games are luxury items that should only be bought a few times a year, or from Christian Peterson that high prices will save brick and mortar stores.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay
Scotland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
As a board game publisher I'm not sure that they're doing anything revolutionary. Looks like they've done a decent job, though there's other companies that can match their quality, communication, and innovation. May be useful having a company that knows software when it comes to the future for hybrid games, though that doesn't necessarily mean they have will have good ideas for decent hybrid games. Right now at least, developing a hybrid that integrates well and convinces people unsure about the move towards apps are just as important as the technical side.

The area where I think they could make a big difference on the industry is in getting more people into board gaming. They have a massive LoL base to sell this to, and the size of the company means they are better placed to publicise their games beyond the reaches of BGG. Plus if they continue with the lower prices that might have a better chance of encouraging people to get into board gaming. Direct sales isn't fantastic for the industry, but as long as it doesn't become the norm for publishers generally, I think it can have a place without damaging stores too much. And if they can contribute to growing the hobby, then that's going to benefit the industry as a whole.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
pegasus09 wrote:
The area where I think they could make a big difference on the industry is in getting more people into board gaming.


Does that benefit you or me? I don't think I'm going to have much in common with the LoL players who pick up this game. I am glad if they enjoy it but if they play a board game that doesn't really do anything for me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
oystein eker
Norway
Unspecified
sola
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes -it is a love letter and a gift to the fans.

But it is more than an extreme goodie bag selling for non profit.

To keep the fans happy and buzz white hot, the additional effort would not be necessary:

1. Going the extra mile in playtesting and developing. A marketing department would be satisfied with a mediocre game play, such as other rip off games like Transformers and My Little Pony. MvM is lifted up to be decent game. (Not perfect) on par with experienced FFG. Seems the target to be experienced board gamers, and not just a thank you to existing fans.

2. Producing just 5K games, and let the vultures fight fight for it. RG has promised that everyone who wants it, will get one copy.

3. Extra effort in BGG communication.

IMO - MvM could be a probe into the board game industry and business.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
1.) It is a lot easier to spend time and money perfecting a game when you don't need immediate profit to keep the company afloat. Even companies like FFG need to get things out the door relatively quickly, and 3 years of focused development on one game is just not something they can do.

2.) All game companies want to meet demand. The reason things go OOP is not to have people fight over stuff on ebay; it is because when a company makes several games, it is difficult to keep them all in print. Companies are constantly printing new and reprints of games, but it is just hard to keep all of the demand met for all of the games. On top of that, even when there is demand, it may not be sufficiently high for the game to get reprinted. The only time you see things intentionally OOP is things like CMON's KS exclusives, but this is just a way of selling more of the main product up front and generating buzz. Even after the KS, they try to keep the non-exclusive stuff in print.

3.) Lots of companies, especially smaller ones, have a large presence on BGG. Once a company has 100s of games though, it is difficult. Jamey Stegmaier, for example, has a very active presence in the forums of his games, but it is a lot harder for a company like FFG to do so, especially with recognizable figures in the company.

Consider as a counter example to this supposed revolution, Games Workshop. Despite being pretty universally hated in the community as a company, they have been around longer than most game companies and they continue to pull in the money.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frederick Ernst
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
pegasus09 wrote:
The area where I think they could make a big difference on the industry is in getting more people into board gaming.


Does that benefit you or me? I don't think I'm going to have much in common with the LoL players who pick up this game. I am glad if they enjoy it but if they play a board game that doesn't really do anything for me.


Maybe not directly, but if the audience is bigger it becomes easier/less risky to make more games, particularly niche games. This means more interesting game choices for you. Also, more players mean bigger print runs. Bigger print runs mean either a) lower prices or b) larger profit margins, which feeds back into it being less risky to make games.

So yeah, I think more people in the hobby will benefit you, even if you never play with them.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MrPiddlesworth wrote:
Maybe not directly, but if the audience is bigger it becomes easier/less risky to make more games, particularly niche games.


I'm pretty skeptical of that. That's not how the mass market generally works, because when you enlarge the audience the people you're adding to the market aren't much like the people in the smaller audience. Giant megaplexes help make more Hollywood star vehicles, but they don't increase the number of indie art films, even though the total number of people watching movies is going up.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kalvin connor
United States
rochester
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I wish that all companies offered games on their site cheaper than anywhere else
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frederick Ernst
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:


I'm pretty skeptical of that. That's not how the mass market generally works, because when you enlarge the audience the people you're adding to the market aren't much like the people in the smaller audience. Giant megaplexes help make more Hollywood star vehicles, but they don't increase the number of indie art films, even though the total number of people watching movies is going up.


While it may be true that most of the mass market won't be interested in indie or hardcore offerings, some of them will... people who had no idea these things existed. So maybe mass market grows by 100k and only 10k become "hardcore" board gamers. That's still growth.

Another thing to keep in mind is that MvM isn't a mass-market game. This isn't "LoL Monopoly" or "Runeterra Clue".
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.