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Darkrock Ventures» Forums » Rules

Subject: How does the captain change placement? rss

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Ben Turner
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I've had a read through of the rules, and admit this is probably something that might become clear with the first playthrough, but how does the captain change placement rules?

As I understand, crewmembers can only be added to stations that are totally empty, or stations that contain one of your crewmembers already.

So when my opponent places his captain on a station, how does that change things? As far as I can see, I still can only place crewmembers on emtpy stations or on stations that contain one of my crewmembers already - the captain has not altered this choice (apart from making the station he is on no longer empty, but then a regular crewmember would have done the same here)

Ok, I do realise the captain blocks crew coming in via the delegate station - there is that - is that the only difference?

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The Captain has two main functions:
It gets activated twice instead of just once (both actions in sequence).
It blocks out opposing Crewmembers and isn't blocked by Crewmembers.

However, once you have a Crewmember on a Station, you may always place there, even if an opposing Captain is added later. Think of it as having "your foot in the door" so you still have access to it.

The Delegate station allows you to place a Crewmember at a station that is already occupied by an opposing Crewmember, but you cannot Delegate to a Station with an opposing Captain.

Two opposing Captains cannot share a space, even when using Delegate.

Does that help?
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Jarad Bond
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Phantomwhale wrote:
Ok, I do realise the captain blocks crew coming in via the delegate station - there is that - is that the only difference?

One small point of nuance I want to add regarding the Captain is that you cannot put another Crewmember on a station that only has your Captain. If you wish to have both a Crewmember and a Captain on a station, you must place your Crewmember first, and then everyone else will have a chance to delegate there or place their own Captain first before you get a chance to add your Captain.

And, in my experience, if everyone lets you do that uncontested on an asteroid, then you win!
 
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logris wrote:
...you cannot put another Crewmember on a station that only has your Captain.


To clarify, your Captain does not block your own Crewmembers. A Captain will only keep out "opposing" Crewmembers. Because of this, you may want to place your Captain first so that you can keep the other players out when possible.
 
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Jarad Bond
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rulebook wrote:
Additionally, once you assign your Captain to a Station, no further Crewmembers can be assigned there unless the player has already assigned at least one Crewmember there this round.

Edits: I didn't want to sound short so I added more discussion. I am frustrated by the rules as written.

I'm sorry - I love the game, but if you can place further Crewmembers after you've placed your Captain, then the explanation of the Captain really sucks. is incorrect. I'm not even taking it out of context. The rulebook doesn't ever imply that this sentence only applies only to other player's Crewmembers. It sounds like you wanted to talk specifically about blocking the delegate action. If so, it would have been so much better to just write that.

Please correct it if you ever plan on making another printing!
 
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Thanks for your feedback, it is much appreciated. Looking through the rules about the Captain behavior, there are some assumptions made, but I can see how the conclusion was reached and hopefully that can be clarified in a later printing. It currently reads that once "you" assign your Captain... "no further Crewmembers can be assigned" unless "the player" has already assigned. In that wording, "the player" is meant to refer to the other players in the game, not all players.

Instead of "no further Crewmembers" it should read: "no further opposing Crewmembers may be assigned there unless the opposing player has already assigned at least one of their Crewmembers there this round."
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logris wrote:
It sounds like you wanted to talk specifically about blocking the delegate action. If so, it would have been so much better to just write that.


Good point. This would only apply when the Delegate action is used so it would be good to state that specifically. Thanks!

Edit: quote formatting
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Al Jennings
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Just to start, this is a great game. Takes a bit to get through the rules, but game play is fast.

I think I'm having the same issue dealing with captain placement. But I also wanted to check on placing the captain. My understanding was that the captain can go to any empty space or a space occupied with an opposing crewmember. Nothing was said regarding an opposing captain. So if a station had an opposing crewmember, I could put the captain there, regardless if there where an opposing captain there, right? I thought that the only way to block a captain was to only place a captain there.

I feel moderately bad about posting an unrelated question in this thread, but not bad enough to stop me. I just wanted to check that all non-solar array assigned workers need to be removed. The rules talk about not-resolving the workers, so that seemed to leave the door open to leaving your workers out so they get a head jump on placement. Not a good strategy, but there might be a case where it's good (e.g. not needing to use rover, but hold it for next time). Also, can you leave workers on the highest solar charge (e.g. if your cargo is full this turn).

Cheers, AJ
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Jarad Bond
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BigAJ wrote:
Just to start, this is a great game. Takes a bit to get through the rules, but game play is fast.

I think I'm having the same issue dealing with captain placement. But I also wanted to check on placing the captain. My understanding was that the captain can go to any empty space or a space occupied with an opposing crewmember. Nothing was said regarding an opposing captain. So if a station had an opposing crewmember, I could put the captain there, regardless if there where an opposing captain there, right? I thought that the only way to block a captain was to only place a captain there.

No to the bolded question, but yes to the following statement... Captains do block other captains:

rulebook, page 6 wrote:

Additionally, once you assign your Captain to a Station, no further [opponent's] Crewmembers [or Captains] can be assigned
there unless the player has already assigned at least one Crewmember [or Captain] there this round.

(brackets mine)

I've had issues interpreting the rulebook, especially where Captains are concerned. I think that the rulebook sometimes talks about Captains as Crewmembers, and sometimes not. I've bolded some additional qualifiers that I added, which meskue (the designer) helped me to understand. He is very helpful.

The actual rules about Captains are easy. According to my discussions with meskue, I have determined that Captains are placed just like regular Crewmembers, but may be additionally placed on a space containing only opposing Crewmembers and no opposing Captains. So they can be placed on any of the following:

1. Empty spaces
2. Spaces containing your own Crewmembers or Captains (regardless of opposing Crewmembers or captains)
3. Spaces with opponent's Crewmembers (but not an opponent's Captain unless rule 2 applies)

Note that you can always place anything (captain or crew) on any place you already have crewmembers - it is the "foot in the door" rule. All crewmembers follow rules 1 and 2. Captains may also be placed according to rule 3.

Edit: I re-read this whole thread again and saw that meskue said that two Captains may never share a space. I think this just illustrates my earlier point that sometimes the rules talk about Captains as Crewmembers and sometimes not. I can put a Crewmember on a station, then an opponent's Captain could go there, then I can add another Crewmember (foot-in-the door). If two Captains can never share a space, then that means the foot-in-the-door only applies to Crewmembers, not Captains. Yes, a Captain can be added to a Captain if you already have your foot in the door. They *can* share if they're forced to.

BigAJ wrote:
I just wanted to check that all non-solar array assigned workers need to be removed. The rules talk about not-resolving the workers, so that seemed to leave the door open to leaving your workers out so they get a head jump on placement. Not a good strategy, but there might be a case where it's good (e.g. not needing to use rover, but hold it for next time).


rulebook, page 8, Phase 5 wrote:

Starting with the current Leader and proceeding clockwise, each player rolls their Rig dice and resolves all of their
Crewmembers
in any order they choose.
...
When you resolve a Crewmember, remove it from its current Station and return it to your Ship. Activating the effect
of any Station when resolving a Crewmember is optional, but you must return it to your Ship regardless of whether
or not you activated the Station’s effect (unless it is on the Solar Array track).


Unfortunately, you cannot leave your workers on the board.

BigAJ wrote:
Also, can you leave workers on the highest solar charge (e.g. if your cargo is full this turn).

According to the rules I cited, I believe yes.

1. You must resolve the worker.
2. You decline to activate the solar array (as it is optional).
3. You do not have to return your Crewmember since you are on the array.
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Greg Gresik
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And it seems as though the game designer's thumbs up and GG to Logris' post above, indicate that he was 100% correct.
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Jarad Bond
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Nikoms wrote:
And it seems as though the game designer's thumbs up and GG to Logris' post above, indicate that he was 100% correct.

Thank you and thanks to meskue, but I did have one question buried in all of that, if you're still around, meskue.

Can Player A place a Crewmember on any station, then Player B place a Captain there, then Player A subsequently also place their Captain, using foot-in-the-door principles?

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logris wrote:
Nikoms wrote:
And it seems as though the game designer's thumbs up and GG to Logris' post above, indicate that he was 100% correct.

Thank you and thanks to meskue, but I did have one question buried in all of that, if you're still around, meskue.

Can Player A place a Crewmember on any station, then Player B place a Captain there, then Player A subsequently also place their Captain, using foot-in-the-door principles?




Good question! I verified with ACE and Ian that the "foot in the door" guideline still applies to Captains so it is possible for two to be on the same spot if players already have crew there. The general idea that Captains keep out other players is still there, but the "foot in the door" rule takes precedence over that.
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