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Hero Realms» Forums » Rules

Subject: Fireball ability of the wizard rss

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Martin
Germany
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Hello, I have 2 questions regarding the fireball ability of the wizard:


1. If I use it and my opponent has 4 champions in play, 2 of them with guard, are still all 4 champions any my opponent affected by the ability?

2. If I use the ability and the 4 damage are not enough to stun a champion, may I spend at the same time the necessary damage from my damage pool to overcome the defense value or is the 4 damage wasted for the target?
 
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France
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1 - The champions are not targeted, so the guard ability is not taken into account, as it prevents you from using your combat pool to target either a champion or the player who controls the guard.
That is similar to a Wrath of God in Magic: the Gathering, which says "destroy all creatures". You don't target, so it also destroys creatures who cannot be targeted.
You deal 4 to all the champions your opponent controls, regardless of whether they control Guards.

2 - To stun a champion, you need to deal damage equal to their guard/defense value in one turn.
If you've dealt 4 damage to a 6 guard champion, you can still spend 2 from your pool in the same turn to stun it. You can deal that damage 1 by 1 if you want to, or deal 2 damage in one shot.
You're free to take your actions the way you want to, in whatever order you choose.
You even can deal 2+ damage to that guard, and then cast the fireball to finish it off, or deal 1 damage, cast fireball, then terminate it with another damage.
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Martin
Germany
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1. I thought that this was the intention of the designers and I'd have played it this way but guard still confused me a little bit.

The rulebook says: While a player has a prepared guard in play, they may not be attacked and their nonguard Champions may not be attacked or targeted by an opponent.

This still seems to be a contradiction in my opinion as there is not mentioned that the source of the damage has to be the combat pool.

2. I knew that damage doesn't carry over between turns and that no damage tokens exist but I wasn't sure if damage stays at all at champions if you don't deal the required damage to stun him/her at the same turn. Thank you.
 
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France
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The rule number one in card games is that if a card contradicts the rules, the card takes precedence :)

You're welcome!
 
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Martin
Germany
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Good point, the good old golden rule
 
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Martin
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I am happy that I asked the second question but the first one was answered in the text under the picture.
I just noticed it...

I feel a little bit embarrassed now blush
 
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Roger the Alien wrote:
The rulebook says: While a player has a prepared guard in play, they may not be attacked and their nonguard Champions may not be attacked or targeted by an opponent.

This still seems to be a contradiction in my opinion as there is not mentioned that the source of the damage has to be the combat pool.


It makes sense if you define an attack as using damage from your damage pool to stun a champion.

If you read Fireball, the only instance of the word "target" in that effect is "target player", so it is the player and not champions that are getting targeted (no help from the guard) and the damage that it deals is direct damage and not an attack.
 
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France
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ThinkingThatsAll wrote:
Roger the Alien wrote:
The rulebook says: While a player has a prepared guard in play, they may not be attacked and their nonguard Champions may not be attacked or targeted by an opponent.

This still seems to be a contradiction in my opinion as there is not mentioned that the source of the damage has to be the combat pool.


It makes sense if you define an attack as using damage from your damage pool to stun a champion.

If you read Fireball, the only instance of the word "target" in that effect is "target player", so it is the player and not champions that are getting targeted (no help from the guard) and the damage that it deals is direct damage and not an attack.


Indeed, you don't have to be ashamed. Questions like these help everyone have a better understanding of mechanisms and wording in a game. who knows, maybe there will be a card that says you cannot be the target of spells or effects an opponent controls in the future, and this topic would then be super relevant

Even answering a question like this one is interesting. You have the understanding, but now you have to put it into words and give precise examples of how it works and how it would work with another phrasing in order to show the difference.
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Ian Taylor
United States
Massachusetts
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The Golden Rule is a myth. It's bad rules design, and it usually doesn't apply anyway. Most card games that use rules text of any complexity have so many exceptions to it that it just can't be a rule. I can provide examples if provoked.

(You can tell that I hate the "Golden Rule", can't you? Troll me at events if you like! It'll be fun!)

Anyway, the Fireball ability ignores the Guard trait. I don't care how beefy your bodyguard is, he can't block an explosion of primal force.

Ian Taylor
Director of Telling People the Golden Rule is a Myth.
White Wizard Games
 
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France
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IanWWG wrote:

The Golden Rule is a myth. It's bad rules design, and it usually doesn't apply anyway. Most card games that use rules text of any complexity have so many exceptions to it that it just can't be a rule. I can provide examples if provoked.

(You can tell that I hate the "Golden Rule", can't you? Troll me at events if you like! It'll be fun!)

Anyway, the Fireball ability ignores the Guard trait. I don't care how beefy your bodyguard is, he can't block an explosion of primal force.

Ian Taylor
Director of Telling People the Golden Rule is a Myth.
White Wizard Games


I don't know. The basic rules are just that - basic - and lay the game out in an easy to understand way for new players to get into, and then the cards can contradict the rules in any way they like without teaching the game becoming a nightmare for veterans.

Imagine if a new M:tG player had to read through 700+ pages of rules before playing their first games!

But I'd love to hear of examples. Even if it has to be through private messages, Ian
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Pat Lidel
France
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Roger the Alien wrote:
Hello, I have 2 questions regarding the fireball ability of the wizard:


1. If I use it and my opponent has 4 champions in play, 2 of them with guard, are still all 4 champions any my opponent affected by the ability?

2. If I use the ability and the 4 damage are not enough to stun a champion, may I spend at the same time the necessary damage from my damage pool to overcome the defense value or is the 4 damage wasted for the target?


side question: why doesn't my Fireball card look like that, but with a full ugly text instead ? Oo

Ben,
what else ?
 
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Martin
Germany
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That's because the card shown was an early preview, mine differs as well^^
 
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