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Race for the Galaxy: Xeno Invasion» Forums » General

Subject: Green vs Yellow in Xeno Invasion rss

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meles meles
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Green got a lot of very attractive Consume powers:
Green + Any = 2c, 2vp
Green + Brown = 3vp
Blue + Green = 3vp
Green = 2vp, 1c

Meanwhile yellow looks pretty bad by comparison. There's no extra 6-dev with mighty consume like in AA. There's a pair of +3 defense/offense worlds vs xeno, both 1VP only. Alien Historians give 1 victory/card only.

Blue got half of a 3VP consume world, but blue consume was strong already.

Brown got two nice consume devs (Imperium Arms Factory).

And yellow got... not much at all ? And I mean especially the yellow goods. Two worlds let you discard them. Alien Archive is a discount world for yellow, but very expensive itself. Speaking of the Archive, what's the point of its discard-to-produce ? You end up with a faux-green good on it. Wouldn't it be simper to just put "trade yellow from this world for -1" on it ?
 
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John
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I've not played XI so I'm sure someone can offer a more informed opinion on how good Alien cards are.

b0rsuk wrote:
Alien Archive is a discount world for yellow, but very expensive itself. Speaking of the Archive, what's the point of its discard-to-produce ? You end up with a faux-green good on it. Wouldn't it be simper to just put "trade yellow from this world for -1" on it ?


A -1 trade power and "discard to produce" aren't equivalent. If you have few good cards in hand when you want to produce then "discard to produce" is worse, if you have lots of cards, or cards you don't want then discard to produce is better as it cycles cards. That also assumes that you're going to trade the good rather than consume it or use it to boost your military against Xenos via Alien Weapon Cache or defence via Anti-Xeno Alien Bunker. A -1 trade power would be a new power ("discard to produce" first appeared in TGS) and also seems like something that could easily be missed.
 
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Kester J
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There are a lot of genes consume powers, yes - and genes are obviously better than alien goods if you're going that route. Aliens have a lot of synergy with military and fighting the xenos though, while genes worlds have less (although still a couple of things) to offer that route.

But consume is hard in XI (at least if you're playing the invasion game), while military should usually be your default option. Consequently, I find myself playing alien cards a lot more than genes cards, so if anything yellow seems better than green to me. I can entirely imagine that this is reversed when playing without the invasion game, however - in the couple of games I've played that way consume has been much more viable.
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John
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zabdiel wrote:
I've not played XI so I'm sure someone can offer a more informed opinion on how good Alien cards are.

But it is tempting to comment anyway

Different expansions have different themes. AA had strong alien consume powers, in XI the theme of the Alien cards is fighting the Xenos. This makes sense - if there's an existential threat that's what a civilisation should focus on if it wants to survive. Of the Alien keyword cards Alien Archives is the only one that doesn't directly help against the Xenos, all the others provide defence or specific military with the exception of Xeno-Infested Alien Outpost which provides non-specific military.

Alien doesn't look too bad to me, particularly as supporting cards in a Xeno/Alien strategy. It looks like it may be easier to get low/medium defence Alien military worlds down with Alien Weapon Plans & Alien First Contact Team and Alien Weapon Cache providing an extra low defence world. Alien Defense Center provides a big high point world. Alien Historians seems aimed at a Xeno/Alien giving a military boost to get down the high value Xeno & Alien worlds.
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Serge Levert
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b0rsuk wrote:
Green got a lot of very attractive Consume powers:
Green + Any = 2c, 2vp
Green + Brown = 3vp
Blue + Green = 3vp
Green = 2vp, 1c

Meanwhile yellow looks pretty bad by comparison.

Well, it's about time green got a little boost. Until now it was ~always the weakest color. And as Kester points out, it only really stands out in non-Invasion. It's not great in Invasion games.

b0rsuk wrote:
Brown got two nice consume devs (Imperium Arms Factory).

It's a pretty crappy dev, but that's probably beside the point.

b0rsuk wrote:
what's the point of its discard-to-produce ? You end up with a faux-green good on it. Wouldn't it be simper to just put "trade yellow from this world for -1" on it ?

Presumably it's on V for thematic reasons.
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meles meles
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I've played many games with AA and in that format Green is pretty good. The highlight is being being able to score 2VP per windfall, and those small green windfalls often count for military oriented 6-devs like Imperium War Faction or Galactic Imperium. Alien Uplift Chamber is like a third 6-dev. Yes, there's Designer Species, Inc., but it's only one world in a deck. Green is mostly good for a tableau strategy.

Why do you call XI "Imperium Arms Factory" crappy ? I'm sallivating over them! They cost less than 6, so the deck gets two of them. They restore windfalls. They add military. And the consume power is very good. Plus, the Imperium tag.
 
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Brendon Russell
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I think the simple answer is that it was an intentional design choice to give XI a different flavour and balance of strategies compared to the other expansions/arcs. In AA, Alien got some Consume love. In XI, it went to Genes, and Alien got more of a Xeno tie-in instead.
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Serge Levert
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b0rsuk wrote:
Why do you call XI "Imperium Arms Factory" crappy ? I'm sallivating over them! They cost less than 4, so the deck gets two of them. They restore windfalls. They add military. And the consume power is very good. Plus, the Imperium tag.

They cost 4, not less than 4... IAF is really, really bad. It costs 33% more than Mining Conglomerate, for very marginal benefit, at a point in time when cards are at their most valuable (early game when setting up your engine). It's fine in a military Imperium tableau, but that comes up extremely rarely.

It's bad for the same reason Epsilon Eridani and Research Labs are bad. The increased cost of hybrid cards is not made up for in their flexible powers.
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Tom Lehmann
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entranced wrote:
[IAF is] fine in a military Imperium tableau, but that comes up extremely rarely.

Interesting. I believe that XI is where I finally got the Imperium/Rare strategy to frequently work (as opposed to AA, where it only occasionally works). I'm surprised that you find this strategy comes up so rarely.
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Serge Levert
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Interesting. I believe that XI is where I finally got the Imperium/Rare strategy to frequently work (as opposed to AA, where it only occasionally works). I'm surprised that you find this strategy comes up so rarely.

I only have 200 plays so it could be a lack of experience. Brown Imperium seems very weak (or at least, very rare) to me in XI, both with and without Invasion. Though it's not surprising to me, as there are so few Imperium cards. 2 devs, one 6dev (not counting the mostly irrelevant Galactic Imperium), and 4 worlds (if you count Blaster Gem Mines, which you should of course).

The 6dev relies heavily on a pure brown strat to be any good at all, so it doesn't mesh well with military Rebel/Imperium tableaux. Basically the Imperium part of brown Imperium is barely noticeable. It's brown strat. And the 6dev doesn't even score well for other brown worlds, though it's understandable given that they are 2 cheaper and give card draw.

Not to mention that the strategy is only any good if you get the 6dev out before the worlds in the first place, which is never easy nor frequent.
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meles meles
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Yes I made an error with "less than". But I still think Imperium Arms Factory is good. It grants "production", consumption and settle powers in a single package.

If by "Imperium/Rare" you mean BOTH of them in the same strategy, then I agree it's pretty hard to use it in AA. Maybe it's just me, but I can't use Produce and Settle powers of Imperium War Faction to good effect. I can't manage to field both a decent number of Rare production worlds AND a 6-dev. As for using Imperium War Faction for settle, it's overpriced for occasional +2 military bonus.

I would say Research Labs is bad for other reasons: it's an expensive development that synergizes with very expensive planets (yellow) and consumes, poorly, valuable goods. With cards costing as many as that you probably focus either on green or yellow. It should probably cost 3, because all of its powers are minor. What if it consumed any good and gave +1 card on any produce ? It would be merely an okay card.

Compare to Scientific Cruisers from AA



It's speculation time again!
I'm looking over card images from XI and I see many (compared to AA, base) cards with 0 VP, or only 1. There's one fat 9 and one fat 8, but otherwise those tough military cards and big world tend to have less VP than their cost, often by a lot.

Hypothesis: gaining points in XI is not straightforward. You need to make a tag soup.
 
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meles meles
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About the military/imperium strat in AA - I don't know why Imperium War Faction is limited to sacrificing only one rare good (settle power). I just had a game where it would really shine if I could spend 2 rare goods. 6-devs are known for occasionally breaking rules: Trade League, Wormhole Prospectors, Alien Uplift Chamber & Rebel Resistance (they transcended into planets ;-).
 
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