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Cry Havoc» Forums » General

Subject: I don't think the planet is a sphere... rss

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Tomas Inguanzo
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I think it's a Klein bottle.



Ever since I saw the map I've been wondering what kind of planetary geometry could result in the six directional edge wrapping. I remember reading something years ago that said a flat projection map of a spherical world can wrap east to west without consequence, but if you also make it wrap north to south, then your planet must be shaped like a torus (a donut). The Cry Havoc world is more complicated, because it has six cardinal directions instead of four. Before looping together the north and south edges you have to twist it into a Mobius loop so that the north-east touches the south-west. Then you connect the east edge to the west edge, which are actually two different areas of the same edge, and you get a Klein bottle.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Cry Havoc is played out on the surface of a Klein bottle, which brings up some fun implications about the Trog tunnels.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Or just a plain "simple" wraparound :)
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Grant Rodiek
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The intent is that no position is completely safe, and thinking about high tech forces, they wouldn't be so limited in movement. Planets are round, so we're generally thinking this is round.

It doesn't get much more complicated than that. I am, however, open and pleased to any interpretations.
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Randy Espinoza
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Not necessarily. For it to be a Klein Bottle it would need to be non-orientable. A person would have to come out upside down on the other side.

It is simply a sphere projected "from" the South Pole: if the map shows a projection with the North Pole at the center of the map, the South Pole (not on the map) is simply the common point where all the wrap-around paths intersect. Traveling in a loop:

Sansa Grove -> Center -> Gore West -> South Pole -> Sansa Grove again

is traveling on a "Meridian". Same for the other paths.
 
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Jason Brown
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HerrohGrant wrote:
The intent is that no position is completely safe, and thinking about high tech forces, they wouldn't be so limited in movement. Planets are round, so we're generally thinking this is round.

It doesn't get much more complicated than that. I am, however, open and pleased to any interpretations.

I agree with Grant...you're over thinking this. I like the round map because it looks nice and offers oodles of strategic options.
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Kim Choy
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I think you're all missing the point of the OP?

He's quite right, if you were to try and take the map and wrap it around a three dimensional object in such a way to maintain all the adjacencies without introducing others you would have a problem.

Gameplay-wise, this map is great and makes for a balanced set-up. In reality, it's impossible without being able to traverse in a 4th spacial dimension.

But hey, it's sci-fi. Maybe extradimensional travel just means being able to phase between the fourth dimension...
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Kim Choy
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The problem with the Klein bottle idea, of course, is that it has no volume. That would make mining for minerals in the planet awfully difficult! whistle
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Tomas Inguanzo
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Espinoza wrote:

It is simply a sphere projected "from" the South Pole: if the map shows a projection with the North Pole at the center of the map, the South Pole (not on the map) is simply the common point where all the wrap-around paths intersect. Traveling in a loop:

Sansa Grove -> Center -> Gore West -> South Pole -> Sansa Grove again

is traveling on a "Meridian". Same for the other paths.


I thought about that, but it only works if your South Pole has some kind of odd crossroads that forces you to keep going straight ahead instead of turning down one of the other branches. Otherwise, every wrapping point would be adjacent to every other wrapping point.
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Tomas Inguanzo
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
...you're over thinking this.


Well, yeah, obviously, but I think my reasoning is sound.
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Randy Espinoza
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umchoyka wrote:
... to maintain all the adjacencies without introducing others you would have a problem.
That's the point, I don't imagine Merals adjacent to Ashlas Wetlands for instance. The map simply says "To Merals" and so on.

So, I simply imagine all the regions at the edge of the map as having the same latitude on a sphere very close to the South Pole (say latitude 80 S), then the different regions are at longitude 30 E, 90E, 150E, 30W, 90W and 150 W. You can go from any region "to" the other in the same meridian by going through the South Pole.

I agree that if you identify the locations as adjacent then the map has a weird geometry but it isn't a Klein Botle (the problem is that we know nothing about how the paths between the regions are identified to do the folding).

But if when you play your figures come out upside down on the other side then feel free to call it a Klein Bottle

 
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Kim Choy
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Espinoza wrote:
umchoyka wrote:
... to maintain all the adjacencies without introducing others you would have a problem.
That's the point, I don't imagine Merals adjacent to Ashlas Wetlands for instance. The map simply says "To Merals" and so on.

So, I simply imagine all the regions at the edge of the map as having the same latitude on a sphere very close to the South Pole (say latitude 80 S), then the different regions are at longitude 30 E, 90E, 150E, 30W, 90W and 150 W. You can go from any region "to" the other in the same meridian by going through the South Pole.

Okay, but then why can't you travel to any of the other "off the edge of the board" connections? If they are meeting close to the south pole as you said then they would all be adjacent to each other.

In any case, it's really not a knock on the game at all. Like I said, it's a great way to create a balanced map.



Oh, by the way there is another possible way that these adjacencies can exist in three dimensions. However, you would end up with a sort of shell-planet with no actual core (or no single core).

To visualize, touch your thumb and ring finger together and then on the same hand, touch your index and pinky fingers together so they are underneath your thumb and ring finger loop but not touching it (you may have to use your other hand to bring them in). If you have 6 fingers you can join the last two together as well laugh
 
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Evan McKinney
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Somebody just draw it out on a piece of paper, cut it out, and wrap it around your desired sports ball or party balloon.
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Karl Ruppelt
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qklilx wrote:
Somebody just draw it out on a piece of paper, cut it out, and wrap it around your desired sports ball or party balloon.


I'm putting in my vote for a disc shaped planet supported by enormous elephants astride a gigantic turtle.
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Shane
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hrhtomas wrote:
MAJBrown22 wrote:
...you're over thinking this.


Well, yeah, obviously, but I think my reasoning is sound.


Heaven forbid you try to inject some fun, creative theming into a "dudes on a map game" or posit reasoning for an unusual map projection.

I like your theory. Have a .
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