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Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest» Forums » News

Subject: Dungeon Saga Rules Committee rss

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Noticed the following post from Mantic for people who have interest and time to help/support developing Dungeon Saga to the next level.
Quote:
Hi everyone,

As some of you may know, a number of our games are supported by a hand-picked elite team of gamers from the community who form a group called “The Rules Committee”. For each game, it’s the RC’s role to help with (and suggest!) playtesting, new game content and rules, development of FAQs and more. These groups have proved invaluable in helping shape our games, acting as a bridge between us and the game’s players and ensuring our games are well supported.

We have some plans for Dungeon Saga and we now want to create a small Rules Committee for the game. If you would like to be a part of this unique group and be engaged in the ongoing support and development of your favourite Dungeon Crawler, please read on!

We are only looking for a small team so we need to make sure that team has the skills we need to make it a success. If you are interested in applying for the DS RC, please can you email matt.gilbert@manticgames.com with the following details:
1. A brief description about you and the games you play, why you want to join the RC and why you are the right person. 300 words max please!
2. How long you have been playing Dungeon Saga for with your gaming group.
3. Any fan-based material you have created (with links).
4. A small example scenario you have created for the game as an example of your work. The scenario should have a narrative introduction of up to 250 words.

The closing date for application for the DS RC will be the 14th October 2016 and the successful applicants announced shortly afterwards.

And who knows – if the DS RC proves a success, its remit might expand into Star Saga too!

Good luck.

Matt
 
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Brad P
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I wonder if they would let me join.
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Finland
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eriochrome wrote:
I wonder if they would let me join.

I wonder that too, but hope so if you apply At least you fulfill all the criteria.
 
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Brad P
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batanen wrote:
eriochrome wrote:
I wonder if they would let me join.

I wonder that too, but hope so if you apply At least you fulfill all the criteria.


I am probably to much of a "dick".
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Wayne Shepherdson
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eriochrome wrote:
I wonder if they would let me join.


You should! You helped out a lot before. Just email them and post a link to your blog!
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Highlord Tamburlaine
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I'd love to see Eriochrome join too.

You've done a lot to try and keep Mantic accountable as well as come up with good ideas on how to make the game a tighter play experience.

Wouldn't hurt to apply!
 
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Ben Turner
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Whilst I'd venture that some of the style of debate offered up has been slightly uncivil on occasion(regardless of if it felt "deserved"), I'd certainly be a lot more confident to see you on that team, given your push for a tight set of comprehensible rules and a more robust gaming system for DF overall.

Depends if you want to be on a committee too, of course! There are some aspects of my life and hobbies that I personally am grateful to "committee" on, but there are others for which by benevolent dictatorship is all I am prepared to offer
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Allan Rodda
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eriochrome wrote:

I am probably to much of a "dick".


I'd prefer to see someone like you on the rules council than a group of Mantic apologists. Selecting the kind of people who think Mantic can do no wrong is what lead to the problems surrounding 'Alpha 3' of the Warpath rules last year. The game is going to be better if people are willing to challenge the status-quo and do what is best for the game, rather than what they think will earn them more brownie points.

Of course that hinges on whether you actually want to do it or not. I can't imagine they would be particularly grateful, and it smacks a little too much of 'getting the fans to do our work for us' for me. Do they even offer any kind of compensation?
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Brad P
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No compensation from what I hear and probably NDA type stuff which could limit other stuff I do.
 
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Ciaran M
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I suspect the only reward/compensation is recognition in any future print material and being able to get more direct access to the developer and Mantic on future game direction.

The NDA stuff may be an issue alright, personally I do alot of custom stuff that I want to push onto my own page. If the same ideas were being worked on by the RC then that would need resolved.

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring for it regardless.

I spend alot of free time on DS anyway, so I might as well see if that could be done with Mantic rather then out on my own.
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ezeqiel wrote:
I spend alot of free time on DS anyway, so I might as well see if that could be done with Mantic rather then out on my own.

Great go for it! I usually don't play fan creations, but will of course if they're part of the official product. In my opinion this is the best opportunity to contribute towards the game especially if one does / has done fan rules in spare time. It's a great blessing for the game to have individuals like that working with Mantic!
 
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Simone C.
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I am happy that they want to fix DS (even if it seems more a free job done by players than a task of Mantic), don't know if they will fix the advanced rules (solo-coop-char advancement) too, I bet on a future DS 2.0 KS with refined rules...
 
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Brad P
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Mailok wrote:
I am happy that they want to fix DS (even if it seems more a free job done by players than a task of Mantic), don't know if they will fix the advanced rules (solo-coop-char advancement) too, I bet on a future DS 2.0 KS with refined rules...


I think those are the specific rules area to be targeted since those are the things they talk about doing differently in the Star Saga game.
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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It sound like they got some feedback on the StarSaga Alpha rules (which are just basic rules - not the advanced) and want to adjust DS to that.

Would not help in my opinion since the basic rules are not really a problem.
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Brad P
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Repost from Facebook Dungeon Saga Fanatics:

ME:
There seems to be questions about what the Rules Brief for the Dungeon Saga Committee would be. While there are some minor issues with the core game rules (Arc, LOS wording) most of these seem to lie in standard FAQ level corrections (if still left undone 10 months later). While porting a modified version of the Star Saga search/loot system into the core missions and some additional optional rules for handling the end of missions not that much really needs to be done to the Core game box. Conversion to the defense dice system seems unwise do to the multiple skills,spells, and items interacting with the armor.

I think most of the unsatisfied backers look to the Adventurers Companion as the issue. So I am going to run down what I would like to see done in this regard and highlight strengths and weakness of the system.

First really new stuff in the book is the traps. This section needs work as only a single class can do anything against them generally using actions slowing game play so if you want to include them they are either going to be avoided or if they cannot be avoided it is essentially just saying to the players here you take damage.

Next section is the character generation and advancement options and outside petty spell access (specifically break ward), spell learning mechanic, and shooting advancement it is pretty reasonable. Player do get choices and with some tuning to the balance after fixing the earlier issues seem pretty workable with a properly organized presentation which it lacks now.

The campaign section certainly need some work for integration with the existing mission packs. Right now it does not really distinguish between a Quest and a Mission. The rules are structured like after each adventure you are free to do what you want around town which does not match the narrative from work in any of the Quest packs really. I think you guys get this from you discussion of Star Saga so this might be a place where the Star Saga results could port relatively easily into the rules. Might also be the place to get some more information for the competitive overlord side but that needs lots more work.

I am just going to ignore the designing a dungeon essay. It would be a great introduction to a book about designing missions but it provided no tools which is quite an issue. Most of the tools I think can be worked up in the Random Dungeon section.

Random dungeon generates missions and builds maps pretty well actually. So on the fly adjustments need to be made but overall that section works. The breakdown is guidance on matching the dungeon to the characters. Originally you did not even include activations and it still relies on the time out mechanic which is weak for this type of thing. I personally would like to seem mechanics for building the overlord deck (ranking overlord card power like in Star Saga makes sense here), setting minion pools (both max level and numbers), scaling of random levels from the event card, and guidance on Boss levels which are scaled both the number of heroes and the heroes power level. In RPG one hero per player is the norm so sometime 2 and sometime 5 heroes should be accounted for. Some looting would also be nice.

Invisible Overlord first falls down on presentation. The rules as written and example free are hard to follow. After that for me and many players, I find I have to make to many decisions for the minions and often if following the rules the decisions seem non optimal. The structure of the IO cards is actually pretty good it is just the rules converting that information to events on the table that need tuning.

Lastly the Bestairy seemed pretty light. I would like to seem some more variation in the races so that for example every elf or dwarf you encounter is not a battle hardened professional soldier. This would make application of the uncharted system easier. I also would love to seem more example bosses in this section.

Finally it would be great if the Rule committee could deliver the missing rule/mission items that you guys have sort of ignored. The 2 missing missions for Infernal Crypts could be added in a branching frame work for more varied play structure for a failed mission. Dwarf Engineer and Witches could be added to the classes.

Thanks for Reading, Have a Wonder Day.

Matt Gilbert:
thanks for the feedback. The scope of the RCs work will include FAQs, new scenarios, looking at and improving the AC rules and more. Many of the points you mention will fall into their remit.
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Stuart Kerrigan
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I'm thinking of applying. I think you definitely should Brad. Every team needs a resident naysayer/dick/rebel/Wolverine. Mantic seem fairly relaxed about NDAs. I've play tested Star Saga twice now and have signed naught.
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Christopher
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This game needs to follow through on it's promise of being a modern reinvention of Heroquest. There should be searching for secret doors, treasure, and traps. Each mission should give the GM player a certain amount/type of traps and treasures to distribute in the dungeon, that way the players don't know where they are on replays. The furniture should also be interactive, allowing players to move it for cover and stand on it for a high ground bonus.
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Thorsten Schröder
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I think all that could be done with another (or two) expansions.
Maybe an open story campaign that goes away from the railroad-stories of the existing campaigns.
Getting rid of the timer on missions (like they apparently do in StarSaga).

I see no need for a 2nd edition.
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Nevin Ball
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The AC definitely needs a 2nd edition.
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Thorsten Schröder
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I know what you mean but if they'd give me an expansion which essentially does resolve all the problems with the AC I'd have not problem with that.
 
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Silver Bowen
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Once I saw how little they had done to fulfill the promises made about gameplay, how skimpy the AC was, and in general how half-baked the whole production was, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Now Mantic is asking folks to sign on as unpaid rules consultants and fix the mess they couldn't be bothered to get right? Sheesh.

I'm done supporting Mantic products at retail. Not giving them another dime. Definitely not giving them my time, which is even more valuable (to me).
 
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Christopher
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I applaud Mantic if they're really taking the time to humbly ask for help in fixing their game. It's unfortunate that they half-assed it originally, but what's done is done. What they're doing now is the best thing they can do. Again, here's what needs to be done:

1) Implement searching for traps, secret doors, and treasure similar to HeroQuest.

2) Introduce meaningful rules for interacting with furniture (move it for cover, stand on it for high ground bonus, search it).

3) Implement an optional detailed character creation/development system so fans of games like Descent/Imperial Assault can sink their teeth into it, and let players keep their loot across campaigns. Provide lots of fun magic items/weapons.

4) Implement a between mission system like Warhammer Quest (visit taverns, etc). It'd be really neat and innovative to actually require characters to support their lifestyles between missions; characters with no gold have to sleep in the street and eat trash, getting penalties due to poor health in the next mission, while characters that spend lots of gold on good food/lodging/medical care get bonuses. Get creative, make a dungeon crawler that really feels like Advanced HeroQuest/D&D without the roleplaying and prep time.
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Brad P
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Most of that stuff is just implemented poorly in the AC (except searching). No specific part of the AC is horrible. Most parts just need some tuning. It is just that nothing was done well that brings the whole book down. I doubt I will make the committee as I am a poison pill that Mantic probably cannot swoll but it will be interesting to see if this is real or just lip service to try to get people on Star Saga. It would have made a lot more sense to start this back in Feb or March.
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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silverbowen wrote:
Once I saw how little they had done to fulfill the promises made about gameplay, how skimpy the AC was, and in general how half-baked the whole production was, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Now Mantic is asking folks to sign on as unpaid rules consultants and fix the mess they couldn't be bothered to get right? Sheesh.

I'm done supporting Mantic products at retail. Not giving them another dime. Definitely not giving them my time, which is even more valuable (to me).


Well my gaming group is havin A LOT of fun with the basegame and the expansions. That may just not be your cup of tea. Mantic's way to handle this KS was admittedly poor.
But not giving them a chance to make this good game better (as it should have been from the start)...
My question is just why do people who don't play the game and don't own it anymore still come to this forum and try to convince everyone who still has fun with it that this is all dumb shit and shoud be thrown out the window because 'GRRRRR I hate mantic so much grrrr...'

I can understand that you write a blog about it or a review. Or back when the poor KS handling became clear complain about... but now it's bee months and every thread about this game becomes the same 'Uh mantic is so bad and that's why no one should play this game or even discuss it's future'

Perhaps we should open up a hate threat and everyone who feels like it can post there and the rest of us can discuss the game.
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