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Space Cadets: Dice Duel» Forums » Rules

Subject: Torpedo Blasts: Greater-Than or Greater-Than/Equal to cause damage rss

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Kevin McDonald
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Parker
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The rule book has conflicting examples on the resolution of blast dice against 1 or 2 shield dice.

On page 8, Section 4: Example 1 and Example 2 both scenarios use a "blast dice must be greater-than shield dice" rule as in:
1 damage caused by: sum blasts on die faces > num shield dice

In the middle black section on page 9: The blue header quick reference table and white text scenario below it use a "blast dice must be greater-than or equal to shield dice" rule as in:
1 damage caused by: sum blasts on die faces >= num shield dice



Which is the correct resolution rule for torpedo blasts against 1 or 2 shield dice?



"Greater Than" (>) Rule:
Quote:

3. If there are one or two shield dice, the Weapon Officer rolls one Weapon die for each torpedo,
looking for Blast symbols. At least one blast symbol is needed to penetrate a side with one shield
die. The Two Blast symbol must be rolled to penetrate a side with two shield dice. This roll may
not be rerolled.

If two torpedoes are launched, each is rolled for separately.

4. For each damage caused, the enemy loses one Energy die and places it on the Damage
Display on the board. When a ship loses its fourth die it explodes.

Any shield dice that were on the sector that was hit are removed from the Shield Display,
regardless of whether any damage was caused.

Example 1: Two torpedoes are launched and there are two shield dice. One torpedo rolls One Blast,
and one rolls Two Blasts. The second torpedo hits, and one damage is caused.


Example 2: Two torpedoes are launched and there are two shield dice. One torpedo rolls One Blast,
and the other also rolls One Blast. Neither torpedo causes damage.



"Greater Than or Equal To" (>=) Rule:
Quote:

Continuing the torpedo example
from the previous page, the torpedo
will hit Shield 2. There is one die
in Shield 2, so the torpedo may be
blocked. White takes one of the dice
from the torpedo and rolls it, getting
one Blast symbol, so the torpedo
causes one damage! Black takes one
of their energy dice and places it on
the Damage Display on the board.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Adding resolution summary below

The game rules follow a "Greater Than or Equal To" rule in all cases. The issue I had is due to resolving sequentially rather than completely independently. Resolving independently is what is outlined in the rules.

Here is the difference:

Sequentially (INCORRECT RESOLUTION):
- Causes shield removal
- Uses strictly greater-than rule

Scenario: 2 torpedoes launched against 1 shield

Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icon(s) and removes 1 shield
- Torpedo 2 immediately causes exactly 1 damage because there are no shields remaining

Alternate Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 0 damage icons and does not penetrate or remove 1 shield
- Torpedo 2 rolls 2 damage icons, the first damage icon removing the shield, the second damage icon causing exactly 1 damage because there are no shields remaining


Independently (CORRECT RESOLUTION):
- During resolution does NOT cause shield removal
- Uses greater-than or equal to rule

Scenario: 2 torpedoes launched against 1 shield

Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icon(s) and penetrates 1 shield, causing exactly 1 damage
- Torpedo 2 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icon(s) and penetrates 1 shield, causing exactly 1 damage

Alternate Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icons and penetrates 1 shield, causing exactly 1 damage
- Torpedo 2 rolls 0 damage icons and does not penetrate 1 shield (because shield remains in place even after Torpedo 1 caused damage)

Note: Shields are removed only after resolution is completed for independent torpedo launches

 
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Marco F.
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The rule is always "Greater than or Equal to". Honestly, I do not see any contradiction in the rules. It seems you are not correctly interpreting the first section.

Quote:
3. If there are one or two shield dice, the Weapon Officer rolls one Weapon die for each torpedo,
looking for Blast symbols. At least one blast symbol is needed to penetrate a side with one shield
die. The Two Blast symbol must be rolled to penetrate a side with two shield dice.
This roll may
not be rerolled.

this seems to me an example of a "greater than or Equal to" rule...

Quote:
Example 1: Two torpedoes are launched and there are two shield dice. One torpedo rolls One Blast,
and one rolls Two Blasts. The second torpedo hits, and one damage is caused.

again.

Quote:
Example 2: Two torpedoes are launched and there are two shield dice. One torpedo rolls One Blast,
and the other also rolls One Blast. Neither torpedo causes damage.


again.

Where is the strictly "Greater than" rule? I am perplexed...
 
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Marco F.
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Maybe now I understand your mistake. You are assuming that, in the case two torpedoes are launched, they hit if the sum of their results is greater than the number of shields. However, as the rulebook says, "If two torpedoes are launched, each is rolled for separately". That is, you do not add the number of hits of the first and second torpedoes. Each hits or not depending on whether it rolls a number of blasts equal or greater than the number of shields.
[if I remember correctly, statistically this means that a torpedo has 3/6 chance to hit against one shield, and 1/6 chance to hit against two shields.]

Thus, in example 1, the only the second torpedo hits, because it rolls two blasts (i.e., equal to the number of shields). It does not hit because the sum of blasts from the two rolls (1+2) is greater than the number of shields (2).

I hope this solves your perplexity... :-)
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Geoffrey Engelstein
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Marco has it right. Each torpedo is resolved separately. That's why three shield dice on the same side always block.
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Kevin McDonald
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Parker
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THANK YOU!! Your explanation totally solved my misunderstanding. I was resolving sequentially rather than completely independently.

For anyone else viewing this thread here is the difference:

Sequentially (INCORRECT RESOLUTION):
- Causes shield removal
- Uses strictly greater-than rule

Scenario: 2 torpedoes launched against 1 shield

Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icon(s) and removes 1 shield
- Torpedo 2 immediately causes exactly 1 damage because there are no shields remaining

Alternate Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 0 damage icons and does not penetrate or remove 1 shield
- Torpedo 2 rolls 2 damage icons, the first damage icon removing the shield, the second damage icon causing exactly 1 damage because there are no shields remaining


Independently (CORRECT RESOLUTION):
- During resolution does NOT cause shield removal
- Uses greater-than or equal to rule

Scenario: 2 torpedoes launched against 1 shield

Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icon(s) and penetrates 1 shield, causing exactly 1 damage
- Torpedo 2 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icon(s) and penetrates 1 shield, causing exactly 1 damage

Alternate Resolution:
- Torpedo 1 rolls 1 (or 2) damage icons and penetrates 1 shield, causing exactly 1 damage
- Torpedo 2 rolls 0 damage icons and does not penetrate 1 shield (because shield remains in place even after Torpedo 1 caused damage)

Note: Shields are removed only after resolution is completed for independent torpedo launches
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