$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 55.96

4,081 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
25.7% of Goal | 29 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
10 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

World in Flames» Forums » Sessions

Subject: Game report #7 : China. Oh dear. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Simon Nicholls
United Kingdom
Bakewell
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Previously : Rhineland reoccupied, Ethiopia conquered, Japan invades China, Anschluss, Russian purges, Spanish Civil War starts and stalemates, CW and France establish new Entent Cordiale, Persia conquered.

Nov / Dec 1937

The CW joined the naval treaty. Japan signed a trade deal with an unrecorded minor country (probably someone Latin American – which seems very common in DoD) and Germany and Italy signed the pact of Bakelite (also sometimes known as a Level 1 treaty).

More of the same in China and Greg repeats the relatively low odds attack on Canton and again ends up hitting 13 rather than 14. With China still able to produce units on a turn by turn basis, Japan losing three units to a single Chinese boy would be very good news for the Democrats. Unfortunately the dice are not playing the game. Otherwise very poor weather limits activity to effectively nothing.


Jan / Feb 1938

Germany gears up. The USSR gears up. Japan play government falls on France who go next and hold the required election (the gear up will have to wait). Italy plays credit card to stop the heavily overdrawn CW from gearing up but the generous French people lend them the extra cash (such is the advantage of a proper treaty) before ending the political phase.

This time the Japanese capture Canton without loss and buoyed by this success attempt another low odds attack into Kwei Yang. As usual, the final die roll ends up as 13 and yet again the 14 of death is body swerved. The Nationalist Chinese pull back to the mountain line, muttering.


Mar/Apr 1938

Everyone has a go at politics and many, many bid points are taken, the French gear up and China appeals to the LoN for a credit extension. Unfortunately they were turned down thanks to those German backed spoilsports Rumania who voted against (you’ll regret that when the Chinese army isn’t there for you in your time of need).

Appalling weather in the Northern hemisphere but the skies clear in southern China and despite low odds attacks, high die rolling means that both Kwei-Yang and Nanking fall for no IJN losses. The remnants of the Nationalist Chinese army reel backwards (surely ‘retire in good order’? – ed.), setting up to laager around Chungking.

The photograph shows the position after the Japanese capture of Kwei Yang but before the seizure of Nanking (and the Chinese oil reserves). I think was too depressed to take a photograph of this entire theatre after this point …



Everything has gone very bad for the Chinese. As Polly Jean so eloquently put it -

How could that happen?
How could that happen again?
Where the f*** was I looking
When all his horses came in?
And he built a whole army
Of kamikaze



7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henning Afzelius
Denmark
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
GREAT AAR

Dont worry to much about China.
In my present game Japan smashed China back to 1 factory in the North and 1 factory in the South i late 1940.
It is now J/F 1943, Japan is removed from the entire Pacific by USA and Japan home iskands are invaded.
All the luck (or skill) in china is nothing VS the naval fighting between Japan and USA (to be fair the USSR gave a hand in my game too whistle). A single turn of roll in a carrier battle can easy Loose more BP than Japan gets from China. Remember Japan cannot leave the China sea as it is supply to all units in China (ok you can get around it but it is not easy if China sea is lost) so once the USA can fight Japan in China sea, the massive losses can get rolling and only USA can replace its losses.

BTW how do you play with the US entry ? Some options will help the US VERY much by a "Lucky" Japanesse advance in China.

Keep the AAR comming :-)
Cheers
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Jurin
United States
Great Neck
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with Henning. China is a big loss but it isn't necessarily game breaking, especially if all of those 'Rape of Nanking' die rolls bring the US in two or three turns earlier. (I'm talking about regular WiFFE, sorry I haven't played DoD).

However, it is good to keep if from being conquered, even holding on to one factory can be important.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Nicholls
United Kingdom
Bakewell
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

You are right that the Chinese theatre is not a total disaster as the Japanese USE number has been soaring and this should result in a much earlier US entry into the war. Anyway, as the Chinese player I can console myself that I don't believe I made any huge mistakes - it was really just the relentlessly efficient dice rolls that did the damage (as you will see in later episodes). France was a different matter ...

The USE system is complicated to work out when combined with DoD3, the additional options in the Annual and the latest draft rules. I think we have it right, but may have slipped up - there are only a limited number of players of the combined game so we can't rely on the usual experts to answer our questions. One point to note is that the US can't play USE options aginst Japan while it is at limited war with China (first 2 years after playing of DoD option JA6) so the Fascist players (and in fact all the other players) have no idea where the entry levels are until then.

Anyway, onward. I need to get the reports up to date before our next session in mid October. Unfortunately we seem to have taken no photos during our second session a couple of months ago, which makes deciphering our sometime cryptic notes even more difficult.

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Ashton
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Hi

I know this is not directly linked to your game report but I in our game we are confused about China's Production Multiple. On the charts it says that they are 39 .5 40 .75 etc. modified by Note a} .25.

In our version of the rules (taken off ADG website) Rule 13.6.3 does not mention a} b} c} etc. (except in Option 49: Hitler's War) but instead says

+.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the your country
+.25 if an enemy unit attacked a friendly unit in your home country

The rest of the rule 13.6.3 also does not agree with the printed table notes.

What should we use?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
mbmbmbmbmb
Andy Ashton wrote:
Hi

I know this is not directly linked to your game report but I in our game we are confused about China's Production Multiple. On the charts it says that they are 39 .5 40 .75 etc. modified by Note a} .25.

In our version of the rules (taken off ADG website) Rule 13.6.3 does not mention a} b} c} etc. (except in Option 49: Hitler's War) but instead says

+.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the your country
+.25 if an enemy unit attacked a friendly unit in your home country

The rest of the rule 13.6.3 also does not agree with the printed table notes.

What should we use?


If you're using RAW7 (which you are if you're using the one on ADG's website, which I just double-checked), and you are NOT using the Hitler's War option, use the modifiers on the Production Multiples chart. For China, that means the two +.25's you mentioned above, and no others.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Ashton
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
The production Multiples Notes on the Chart has an a, b & c.

a is the home land attack modifier
b is the US entry opt modifiers
c is the Germany USSR modifier

In the rules (13.6.3)

para 2 & 3 each give a modifier for enemy in and enemy attacks in homeland.

Then their are two modifiers for USSR controlling certain cities.

These are followed by 5 US Option modifiers.

As you can see the charts and the rules are totally different.

I am still confused
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
mbmbmbmbmb
Andy Ashton wrote:
The production Multiples Notes on the Chart has an a, b & c.

a is the home land attack modifier
b is the US entry opt modifiers
c is the Germany USSR modifier

In the rules (13.6.3)

para 2 & 3 each give a modifier for enemy in and enemy attacks in homeland.

Then their are two modifiers for USSR controlling certain cities.

These are followed by 5 US Option modifiers.

As you can see the charts and the rules are totally different.

I am still confused


I just checked. I do believe they are the same. The chart note* (a) is the "attack in your home country" mod. Chart note (b) is the "in-supply enemy in your country." Both are covered in text form in 13.6.3 (below). Those both apply to China (and everybody else). The other three notes are USA and USSR specific ones.

*Referring to the chart in the WIF vassal module.

WIF RAW7/2004 wrote:
Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the major power’s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).

Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if an enemy unit took part during the turn in a land attack (not overrun) against any friendly land unit (including partisans and notional units) in the major power’s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Ashton
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Here are the notes from the chart



Here are the rules from 13.6.5

Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the major power’s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).
Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if an enemy unit took part during the turn in a land attack (not overrun) against any friendly land unit (including partisans and notional units) in the major power’s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).
Increase the USSR's multiple:
ï by 0.25 from 1942 onwards if Minsk or Kiev are Soviet controlled; and
ï by 0.25 from 1943 onwards if Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad are Soviet controlled.
Increase the USA’s production multiple:
ï by 0.25 when the US chooses entry option 22.
ï by 0.25 when the US chooses entry option 34.
ï by 0.25 when the US is at war with any Axis major power.
ï by 0.25 when the US is at war with every Axis major power that has not yet been completely conquered.
ï by 0.25 on the anniversary (i.e. after every 6 turns) of the turn the US selected entry option 34.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
mbmbmbmbmb
Andy Ashton wrote:
Here are the notes from the chart



Here are the rules from 13.6.5

Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if there is an in supply enemy unit in the major power’s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).
Increase a major power’s production multiple by 0.25 if an enemy unit took part during the turn in a land attack (not overrun) against any friendly land unit (including partisans and notional units) in the major power’s current home country (an unconquered UK only in the case of the Commonwealth and not Siberia in the case of the USSR).
Increase the USSR's multiple:
ï by 0.25 from 1942 onwards if Minsk or Kiev are Soviet controlled; and
ï by 0.25 from 1943 onwards if Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad are Soviet controlled.
Increase the USA’s production multiple:
ï by 0.25 when the US chooses entry option 22.
ï by 0.25 when the US chooses entry option 34.
ï by 0.25 when the US is at war with any Axis major power.
ï by 0.25 when the US is at war with every Axis major power that has not yet been completely conquered.
ï by 0.25 on the anniversary (i.e. after every 6 turns) of the turn the US selected entry option 34.




That rules quote is from 13.6.3 (RAW 7/2004), and is basically the same I noted.

But I don't know where you got that production multiples note; what version of WIF vassal are you using?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Ashton
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Sorry, I am not playing a vassal game, it's with maps & counters.

The combat charts are those available for download on ADG's site.

Andy
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Nicholls
United Kingdom
Bakewell
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

And whatever else, the production levels and bonuses are completely different in a DoD game. These are driven by the political options plus a few situation and country specific additions.

As a further note, we are playing a house rule that stops the additional Soviet bonus for being at war with Germany if the USSR stars the war as we have found that a rampant Soviet player can totally out produce the Germans while waging an aggressive war against them from 1940 onwards.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.