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Sagrada» Forums » General

Subject: Unhappy with New Player Boards (KS) (Original Tall vs Squat) rss

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Ernie Darby
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I am a backer of the kickstarter project and today new player boards were shown.

I feel that they cut off a lot of the artwork which is what had me hooked. I understand it will be cheaper for the company and allow for smaller windows which allows for more variability but the fact that the original artwork showed one thing and then I paid a price and now I am getting something else has me really considering un-backing the project and waiting for retail.

Anyone else in the same boat or am I really over-reacting?
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Matt Simpson
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It would be nice if they did both
 
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Ernie Darby
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I even suggest on the kickstarter leave the original as a "Deluxe KS Only" and then have the shorter boards for the retail release. I just feel like the project is no longer what I initially backed and that has me a little upset....
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Mike Beiter
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Am I missong something? The new ones look very beautiful. Maybe I haven't been paying much attention, but how are they different from the original? Were the top parts just longer?

If so, that's clunky and takes up more space. I feel the shorter is better as it still shows a good amount of art.
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Paulo Renato
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diometes wrote:
I am a backer of the kickstarter project and today new player boards were shown.

I feel that they cut off a lot of the artwork which is what had me hooked. I understand it will be cheaper for the company and allow for smaller windows which allows for more variability but the fact that the original artwork showed one thing and then I paid a price and now I am getting something else has me really considering un-backing the project and waiting for retail.

Anyone else in the same boat or am I really over-reacting?


I think you are way over-reacting but like you say, if you really don't like it just Un-back the project... simple.
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Sam Hillier
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I also don't really see what benefit the change brings. They're shorter, and the middle piece of the art is gone.

Why was this done? I don't understand the update, and how this gives "more options."

I'm not looking to complain, just to understand.
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Bart R.
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I might have a slight preference for the original design, but as long as the gameplay stands, I don't care too much either way. Someone suggested keeping the original window size and changing the window cards so there are only two windows per card. Best of both worlds, perhaps?
 
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David Combs
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Daybreak wrote:
I also don't really see what benefit the change brings. They're shorter, and the middle piece of the art is gone.

Why was this done? I don't understand the update, and how this gives "more options."

I'm not looking to complain, just to understand.



At first, there were 4 windows per card, 2 per side. The longer player boards were used to cover up the half of the card you weren't using. People wanted only 2 windows per card to give the game more variety. With the cards now half the size, the longer boards are no longer needed. Plus, I thought I read somewhere that once the designer had physical versions of the player boards, he found them to be much bigger than he thought. With the longer boards, you are using less than half the board to play the actual game, the rest is just decoration.
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Ernie Darby
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Yes the originals were much larger and would make a presence on a table. I don't think it would be clucky and would look beautiful. But I realize everyone has an opinion.
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David Combs
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But it was the designer who thought they were too big, and in the end it is his game. He did ask for people's thoughts.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/floodgategames/sagrada-...
 
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Sam Hillier
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dhc3po wrote:
Daybreak wrote:
I also don't really see what benefit the change brings. They're shorter, and the middle piece of the art is gone.

Why was this done? I don't understand the update, and how this gives "more options."

I'm not looking to complain, just to understand.



At first, there were 4 windows per card, 2 per side. The longer player boards were used to cover up the half of the card you weren't using. People wanted only 2 windows per card to give the game more variety. With the cards now half the size, the longer boards are no longer needed. Plus, I thought I read somewhere that once the designer had physical versions of the player boards, he found them to be much bigger than he thought. With the longer boards, you are using less than half the board to play the actual game, the rest is just decoration.


Ah, ok, so the real change is to the cards themselves, not the holder. I think I get it now
 
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Ernie Darby
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That is very true and lots of people have been very vocal about not liking the smaller boards. It will be interesting to see what the final result will be. Honestly I have decided that if the smaller windows is what happnens I will be cancelling my pledge. I also have friends who feel the same way. Not that 2-3 pledges will make a difference but it puts a bad taste in my mouth for future games from Flood Gate.
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Randy Espinoza
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I'm VERY confused. Are we talking about more or less an inch of art on the boards as a reason to not buy a game? When I watched the videos from gencon I thought the gameplay was fun enough to consider backing the game...as a game. I honestly can't say I understand what the issue is, sorry.
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Ernie Darby
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Well for me personally the gameplay alone wasn't enough for me to back and I skipped out the demo at Gen Con due to the production value of the prototype I saw the campaign and backed, now what was presented and what I backed has been changed, I loved it and now I don't. I know its my opinion but yes for me that's enough to not back.
 
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Rik Claessens
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diometes wrote:
Well for me personally the gameplay alone wasn't enough for me to back and I skipped out the demo at Gen Con due to the production value of the prototype I saw the campaign and backed, now what was presented and what I backed has been changed, I loved it and now I don't. I know its my opinion but yes for me that's enough to not back.

So if you decide that the shorter boards are really a big enough reason for you to not like the game, then I would just cancel the pledge and be done with it. I totally understand that the game is now visually a bit less appealing as first, but we're talking about 5 centimeters of cardboard that did nothing for the gameplay which makes people not like the game anymore?
Sorry, but I don't see the huge problem.
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Tom Hill
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Changes are:


to:

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Quinn Swanger
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Big hairy deal! I'll take the minus couple centimeters of card stock if that means we'll have a lot more mix-and-match window variety. The artwork is still the same and it is still beautiful. So says me.
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Jim Montanus
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"A lot more mix-and-match window variety"

2 player game
5 pattern cards x 4 sides: 20 * 16 / 2 = 160 permutations
10 Pattern Cards x 2 sides: 20 * 18 / 2 = 180 permutations

3 player game
5 pattern cards x 4 sides: 20 * 16 * 12 / 6 = 640 permutations
10 Pattern Cards x 2 sides: 20 * 18 * 16 / 6 = 960 permutations

4 player game
5 pattern cards x 4 sides: 20 * 16 * 12 * 8 / 24 = 1280 permutations
10 Pattern Cards x 2 sides: 20 * 18 * 16 * 14 / 24 = 3360 permutations

Personally, I don't think replayability is an issue in either scenario. I prefer the original design, and would love to see it available to backers.
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Tom Hill
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The alternative option would be: half the windows to increase the permutations, but also keep the big windows.
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Jan Schröder

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what about turning the window cards 90 degrees (and making the player boards a little smaller again) so that the proportions are back to "church window"?
i agree that the new player board shape is not very elegant -but that´s probably not a matter of size but of proportion.

something like this?

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I also really liked the original design. It looked like you are working to complete the bottom part of a window. I doubt we'll be playing this game more than 1,280 times, and if we do, I doubt I'll remember playing the same permutation twice anyway, lol. I certainly won't be keeping track of who played which card. I feel like the change came out of nowhere, really, but then I wasn't subscribed to the Kickstarter forum where that poll was.
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Ran Carnelaine
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Here's another comparison with the KS-exclusive boards:

New board:


Old board:


Actual window (so gorgeous!):

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Ernie Darby
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fides wrote:
I doubt we'll be playing this game more than 1,280 times, and if we do, I doubt I'll remember playing the same permutation twice anyway, lol. I certainly won't be keeping track of who played which card. I feel like the change came out of nowhere, really, but then I wasn't subscribed to the Kickstarter forum where that poll was.


Exactly!!!
 
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Jason Becker
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schroederjan wrote:
what about turning the window cards 90 degrees (and making the player boards a little smaller again) so that the proportions are back to "church window"?
i agree that the new player board shape is not very elegant -but that´s probably not a matter of size but of proportion.

something like this?



You hit the nail on the head, aesthetically, it is all about proportion, just like Gaudí's architecture, taking shapes from nature. The original boards, which were long and lean was very reminiscent of the Sagrada Familia stained glass, with these new ones being quite short and squaty, and not very visually appealing. Most of us have many more games that we can play on a regular basis...and all things being equal (game play-wise) the prettier, more appealing game will always get played more.

A friend came over to play Food Chain Magnate last night for the first time, and mentioned that if the game play hadn't been so good, the look of the game was enough to never play it again...as he likened it to a prototype (at least the board).
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Tim Schmitt
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Tantive4 wrote:
schroederjan wrote:
what about turning the window cards 90 degrees (and making the player boards a little smaller again) so that the proportions are back to "church window"?
i agree that the new player board shape is not very elegant -but that´s probably not a matter of size but of proportion.

something like this?



You hit the nail on the head, aesthetically, it is all about proportion, just like Gaudí's architecture, taking shapes from nature. The original boards, which were long and lean was very reminiscent of the Sagrada Familia stained glass, with these new ones being quite short and squaty, and not very visually appealing. Most of us have many more games that we can play on a regular basis...and all things being equal (game play-wise) the prettier, more appealing game will always get played more.

A friend came over to play Food Chain Magnate last night for the first time, and mentioned that if the game play hadn't been so good, the look of the game was enough to never play it again...as he likened it to a prototype (at least the board).


The downside of this option is that assuming the dice slots remain the same size, scaling the stained glass top of the player board over four dice instead of five makes it smaller.

I see your point about proportion, but this is not going to have much of an impact for me.
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