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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Feds Colonization Fleet: Build or Command Phase? rss

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James J

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"On your turn, you may discard a Ship from this Fleet and Disband this Fleet to immediately Colonize an undeveloped System without spending a Culture."


Am I correct in assuming this would take place during the Command Phase, since that is when you issue Fleet commands? Colonizing is normally part of the Build Phase, so I wasn't entirely sure. But discarding a ship isn't a normal Fleet command anyway and is normally part of the Colonization process.

I went round-and-round with this one in my head. Heh. I can see it argued either way.

EDIT: This ability can be used during any phase. Scroll down to see Gale Force Nine's reply (along with several other examples of cards that affect colonization and timing).
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David Montgomery
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I think it might be during the build phase. You can disband a fleet at any point on your turn. The wording of "without spending a Culture" is what leads me to think that. That seems to be a building idea.

It could be "at any time" though, which would certainly be more advantageous.
 
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Gary Masters
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I would interpret this as meaning that you can do it at any time during your turn, as it doesn't specify a phase.
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Marc Bennett
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Gazbowski wrote:
I would interpret this as meaning that you can do it at any time during your turn, as it doesn't specify a phase.


this is how i have been playing it.
 
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Craig S.
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I would say it happens in the build phase. "Your turn" is your build phase and your command phase. This rule replaces the normal process for colonization, but I don't think it's meant to change when colonization is supposed to happen. Same with the discovery exploration card (Children of Tama Negotiations?) that lets you roll a die to see if you can colonize for free or not at all that round.
 
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Eric Stevenson
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This is on a discover card that is revealed during the command phase. This absolutely gives you the ability to IMMEDIATELY colonize DURING the command phase. You do not have to wait for the next build phase.
 
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Craig S.
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DoctorBox wrote:
This is on a discover card that is revealed during the command phase. This absolutely gives you the ability to IMMEDIATELY colonize DURING the command phase. You do not have to wait for the next build phase.


You could be right...but it's not 100% clear. For instance, that card says if you fail the roll, you can't colonize the system at all "this round". So, if you are correct, and you roll and fail during your command phase when you first pull the card, when can you try again? Your next build phase, when colonization normally happens? Or during your next command phase?

I tend to think they mean ALL colonization to happen during the build phase and just didn't make themselves clear. It needs an answer from GF9 to be certain.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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csouth154 wrote:
I would say it happens in the build phase. "Your turn" is your build phase and your command phase. This rule replaces the normal process for colonization, but I don't think it's meant to change when colonization is supposed to happen. Same with the discovery exploration card (Children of Tama Negotiations?) that lets you roll a die to see if you can colonize for free or not at all that round.


im sure the fleet can colonize during the command phase, fleets normally act during the command phase so its only logical and the word "immediately" emphasizes this.
if it was only during the build phase, the fleet's use would be very limited ie its a lot of effort for only saving 1 culture, doesnt make much sense while 2 ships are now possibly stuck in a location you dont want them to be.

during the command phase you could perfom the colonization several times as you send the fleet, then colonize, commision a new colonization fleet at a starbase/homeworld and resend them etc.
 
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Angelus Seniores
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DoctorBox wrote:
This is on a discover card that is revealed during the command phase. This absolutely gives you the ability to IMMEDIATELY colonize DURING the command phase. You do not have to wait for the next build phase.


for the children of tama exploration card, i would rather say it only happens in the build phase, the card doesnt use immediately.
the wording here is "to colonize you must roll.." so its not a special form of colonization, it simply modifies the normal colonization proces which is done in the build phase.
if you would use the colonization fleet on a planet with children of tama, then its possible in the command as the fleet allows it at that time.
 
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Craig S.
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Angelsenior wrote:
DoctorBox wrote:
This is on a discover card that is revealed during the command phase. This absolutely gives you the ability to IMMEDIATELY colonize DURING the command phase. You do not have to wait for the next build phase.


for the children of tama exploration card, i would rather say it only happens in the build phase, the card doesnt use immediately.
the wording here is "to colonize you must roll.." so its not a special form of colonization, it simply modifies the normal colonization proces which is done in the build phase.
if you would use the colonization fleet on a planet with children of tama, then its possible in the command as the fleet allows it at that time.


I agree about Children of Tama...but what makes you think the fleet should be any different? I think they both alter how colonization works, but not when it can happen...
 
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John Godwin
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The colonization fleet can colonize at any time during your turn. Your turn is both the build and command phases. You can discover a virgin world and colonize it immediately.
 
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Craig S.
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John1701 wrote:
The colonization fleet can colonize at any time during your turn. Your turn is both the build and command phases. You can discover a virgin world and colonize it immediately.


Source, please?
 
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James J

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Well, at least I don't feel bad for asking now.

Since the Discovery "Children of Tama Negotiations" has come up, here's the text:

"REMAINS IN PLAY: To Colonize this System, roll a die and add your Ascendancy: if the total is 4 or more, you may Colonize for free. Otherwise, you may not Colonize this System this turn."


Personally, this one was clear to me. If you want to Colonize during your Build phase, you instead roll a die and either get it for free or not at all. Affecting timing for the first ship to discover it isn't part of the deal. If it did, I believe there would be additional text. The key is the "remains in play" bit. This is an ongoing condition. And since "Colonize" is the first action mentioned, I assume you must issue a Colonization order (ie, during the Build phase).

Contrast with the TOS Crisis card "The Wrath of Olympus":

"Level 4 Hazard. If any Ships survive, you may immediately build a Colony in this System, for free."


Without the "remains in play" text, we know this roll is only made once but allows for a potentially free colony immediately. After that, the card disappears, and the world is either colonized or virgin, but Apollo is gone.

Back to the Colonization Fleet, the problem is that the first command listed isn't one that is available anywhere else: "discard a ship". We know we can add/remove ships from a fleet at any time except mid-movement. Likewise with Disbanding a fleet. If Colonization was the first action listed, I'd say that put it in the Build Phase. But as I look at it more, the "immediately" reminds me of the out-of-phase Colonization outcome on the Olympus card, so I'm thinking maybe this can happen at any time during your turn.

EDIT: Sorry for the length, but maybe we can look at these 3 cards in terms of "triggers".

CHILDREN OF TAMA NEGOTIATIONS
Trigger: Colonization (Build phase)
WRATH OF OLYMPUS
Trigger: Hazard Roll (Command phase)
COLONIZATION FLEET
Trigger: discarding a ship (?)
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Craig S.
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csouth154 wrote:
John1701 wrote:
The colonization fleet can colonize at any time during your turn. Your turn is both the build and command phases. You can discover a virgin world and colonize it immediately.


Source, please?


Nevermind. I just checked the wording on the fleet card and I agree. "On your turn" would mean you can do it any time during your build or command phase.

I still hold that Children of Tama Negotiations can only be resolved during a build phase.
 
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Nova Cat
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I see no reason to restrict the colonization fleet's ability to the build phase.
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James J

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Since we have a few good examples already in the mix, I put it to GF9, and they said they'd pop in with a ruling after consulting the designers.
 
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Matt Freitas
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I honestly think it's during the build phase because otherwise it wouldn't mention the use of culture at all it would simply say, "destroy a ship from this fleet to colonize the planet."

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Craig S.
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Tolio wrote:
I honestly think it's during the build phase because otherwise it wouldn't mention the use of culture at all it would simply say, "destroy a ship from this fleet to colonize the planet."



That does make a very strong case for build phase only...
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Pat Doyle
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First off, I agree that the cards is unclear.

My interpretation is simply that since colonization takes place during the Build Phase, that this happens during the Build Phase. There is nothing in the text that that tells you to colonize out of the normal sequence.

Its certainly more convenient and advantageous for the Fed player to do it during the Command Phase, I just don't think its right. Since the Build Phase is "On your turn", colonizing should still happen in the normal sequence.

Just my Humble Opinion.
 
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Craig S.
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It's definitely too ambiguous to be sure without a clarification from the design team.
 
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Gale Force Nine LLC
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The Federation Colonization Fleet is small formation with a single purpose, colonize a world in the name of the Federation. With this Fleet, you may, at ANY point during your turn, discard a Ship from the Fleet, causing it to Disband, to immediately place Control Node on an Undeveloped System without spending a Culture Token. This may occur during the Build Phase. This may occur at any point during the Command Phase. This action is just like adding to or removing Starships from a Fleet, it costs no Commands but the Fleet must be stationary. Typically this action will occur at the end of a Move Command.

There are a number of Encounter Cards that affect Colonization.

The following cards have effects that occur during the Build Phase:

Discovery – Children of Tama Negotiations

Crisis – Dangerous Flora (50th Anniversary Bonus)

Crisis – Organian Intervention

Discovery – Secrets of the Horta (50th Anniversary Bonus)


On the other hand, these Exploration Cards may result in the placement of a Control Node immediately, during the Command Phase:

Discovery – Abandoned Colony

Discovery – Encounter at Farpoint

Discovery – Lost Colony

Crisis – The Wrath of Olympus (50th Anniversary Bonus)
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Craig S.
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Thanks for clarifying, GF9!
 
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k c
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I must be dense, I need further clarification on the Colonization Fleet.

So is the Colonization Fleet ability absolute?
Would it override Dangerous Flora? or is it just removing the culture token cost and allowing you to perform during the Command Phase?

We played that it was not absolute (it could still be affected by other colonization factors). We allowed the Federation to execute the build colony action during the Command Phase without spending the usual culture token, but in the case of Dangerous Flora, the additional cost of 2 research still had to be paid. Was that correct?

 
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Todd Warnken
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That sounds right to me.
 
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Craig S.
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kcrandall15 wrote:
So is the Colonization Fleet ability absolute?
Would it override Dangerous Flora? or is it just removing the culture token cost and allowing you to perform during the Command Phase?


What is the wording of Dangerous Flora?
 
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