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Scythe: Invaders from Afar» Forums » Rules

Subject: New combat abilities rss

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Dave Moser
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I have a quick question about the new mech abilities that increase power prior to combat.

If I initiate an attack and the power increase results in maxing out my power giving me my 6th star, does the combat take place?
I'm assuming it doesn't, but in that case, who controls the territory for end game scoring?
If combat does take place and I lose, does my opponent get a star for combat (potentially his 6th as well)?
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Mike George
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Great question! I think the combat would take place and if you lose you would both get your sixth star.
 
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Greg
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I would say that you still have to resolve the combat. If you win, you don't get a 7th star, but you would control that territory. If you lose, you still get your 6th star, but the defender also gets a star. Then the game would immediately end.

I was quite wrong about this.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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I would actually disagree with all of the opinions expressed so far. Combat abilities always take place prior to combat, in fact they even take place prior to setting your dial and choosing your card. The rules are pretty clear about a 6th star ending the game immediately, so I cannot see this changing just for this ability.

As for how to resolve the territory. It would be like any other situation like this, you would retreat from the space to the space you entered it from and the player who held it before the combat (that never took place) would still hold it for final scoring. This is synonymous with when you have multiple combats to resolve in a single turn. The rules are clear that if you win your final star from a combat and there are still combats left to resolve, you retreat from the space (see Edge Cases, page 28)
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Jamey Stegmaier
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That's a great question, Dave. Here's what the rules say about ending the game: "The game immediately ends when a player places their 6th star token, even if they have other things they could do that
turn or other things would happen afterwards."

I looked to see if there's anything in the rules about combat stopping after it's begun, and the only thing I could find is on page 26 (Alliances & Bribes) where it says you can't negotiate your way out of a combat that has already begun. So I don't see a reason in the rules why the game wouldn't just instantly stop of you began combat, gained 2 power, and placed your power star as a result.
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Chris Laudermilk
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I'm with Uncle Bastard. It's been stated several times that as soon as star #6 is placed, the game is over. So, gaining that sixth star for maxing power immediately ends the game.
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Evan Schwartzberg
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After check a copy of the rules, if a sixth star is placed before a combat is completed, the game ends and the attacking force moves back to the territory it was entering from.
From pg23: If your 6th star is placed but you still have a combat remaining on your turn, the game ends and any units you moved to initiate that combat will move back to the territory from whence they came.

Note: This was from the pdf copy of the rules, so I don't know if the page reference has changed (the game is at home).

For Togawa, they could move into attack with a single unit to gain 2 power and end the game without combat (through max power 6th star).

For Albion, they could be defending and gain 2 power causing the game to end if that is their 6th star due to max power. Although in this case, the attacking player should know the game will end before they complete the attack.

Hope this helps.

EDIT :ninja'd as usual while fact checking!
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Daniel West
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jameystegmaier wrote:
That's a great question, Dave. Here's what the rules say about ending the game: "The game immediately ends when a player places their 6th star token, even if they have other things they could do that
turn or other things would happen afterwards."

I looked to see if there's anything in the rules about combat stopping after it's begun, and the only thing I could find is on page 26 (Alliances & Bribes) where it says you can't negotiate your way out of a combat that has already begun. So I don't see a reason in the rules why the game wouldn't just instantly stop of you began combat, gained 2 power, and placed your power star as a result.
That does lead to the question of who controls the territory, which I believe Evan referenced above.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Team D20 wrote:
jameystegmaier wrote:
That's a great question, Dave. Here's what the rules say about ending the game: "The game immediately ends when a player places their 6th star token, even if they have other things they could do that
turn or other things would happen afterwards."

I looked to see if there's anything in the rules about combat stopping after it's begun, and the only thing I could find is on page 26 (Alliances & Bribes) where it says you can't negotiate your way out of a combat that has already begun. So I don't see a reason in the rules why the game wouldn't just instantly stop of you began combat, gained 2 power, and placed your power star as a result.
That does lead to the question of who controls the territory, which I believe Evan referenced above.


That question is answered by the rule section I pointed to earlier (Edge Cases, Page 28). If a 6th star is placed and unresolved combats remain, the attacker retreats to the hex they came from before final scoring occurs.
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Greg
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
Team D20 wrote:
jameystegmaier wrote:
That's a great question, Dave. Here's what the rules say about ending the game: "The game immediately ends when a player places their 6th star token, even if they have other things they could do that
turn or other things would happen afterwards."

I looked to see if there's anything in the rules about combat stopping after it's begun, and the only thing I could find is on page 26 (Alliances & Bribes) where it says you can't negotiate your way out of a combat that has already begun. So I don't see a reason in the rules why the game wouldn't just instantly stop of you began combat, gained 2 power, and placed your power star as a result.
That does lead to the question of who controls the territory, which I believe Evan referenced above.


That question is answered by the rule section I pointed to earlier (Edge Cases, Page 28). If a 6th star is placed and unresolved combats remain, the attacker retreats to the hex they came from before final scoring occurs.


Ah yes, I was trying to remember this, but couldn't. I had thought there was something about attacker returning to prior hex.
 
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New situation which I will propose an answer to: 2 factions enter into combat each of which has a power influencing ability which will increase their powers. Once combat begins, which faction takes the ability first, or do they both take it simultaneously? I say simultaneously, both place stars simultaneously (if the puts them to 18 power) and possibly both are the 6th stars for each, which isn't prohibited in the rules. And what says the jury?
 
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PenguinMD wrote:
New situation which I will propose an answer to: 2 factions enter into combat each of which has a power influencing ability which will increase their powers. Once combat begins, which faction takes the ability first, or do they both take it simultaneously? I say simultaneously, both place stars simultaneously (if the puts them to 18 power) and possibly both are the 6th stars for each, which isn't prohibited in the rules. And what says the jury?


You are incorrect, the rules explicitly cover that combat abilities are not used simultaneously:

Scythe base game rulebook, p. 22 wrote:
ATTACKER ADVANTAGE: If the attacking player has a mech ability that impacts combat, they use that ability first, followed by the defending player.


Apart from the issue of placing the 6th star, this could actually also be relevant if the Nordic's Artillery meets the Crimean Scout. In that case, it could even be a disadvantage to have to use one's ability first (in spite of the "Attacker Advantage" headline): Nordic might want to base their decision whether to use Artillery or not on seeing which combat card Scout stole.
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