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Arkham Horror» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tendril of Nyogtha (Ambush vs. text) rss

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Dan P.
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Hey, sorry if this was already asked, couldn't find it.
(this is not about the timing of devour)

The text says "If the Tendril of Nyogtha has not been evaded or defeated after the second round of combat, the investigator is devoured."

but it has Ambush (so you cannot flee, only try to evade before the first horror check [before combat], right?)

so this might be my language barrier to read it correctly, but I could think of two "structures" the text might be split into:

1) "If the Tendril of Nyogtha has not been evaded ... after the second round of combat..." --- which can't happen, because it has Ambush (hence impossible to try to evade during the second round of combat).

and

2) "If the Tendril of Nyogtha has not been evaded [before entering combat]///, and If the Tendril of Nyogtha has not been defeated after the second round of combat..." --- which makes me question why the first part was added.
Because if you evaded before combat (your only option to evade an Ambush monster) there's no way the monster affects you in any way (because you evaded, skipping combat completely), so why not reduce the text to "If the Tendril of Nyogtha has not been defeated after the second round of combat, the investigator is devoured."... because as with any other monster, if you evaded before combat you dont ever need to read the rest of special effects, since you're no longer facing the monster...

this kind of text structures where you can place the condition for either or for both always bugs me.... unlike in math, when you have "X * Y + Z" versus "X *(Y+Z)" and you need to clarify the structural difference for the result might be different... when similar things happen in written text, I struggle

So my question might actually be, what am I reading wrong or forgetting about some rule mechanics?

Thanks
 
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Jerry Martin
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Maybe there are items that would allow you to evade?
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Dan P.
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Haven't thought of that. But if an item mentions "evade" in any context (like "discard to automatically evade a monster", versus an Ambush monster with which you are already in combat... I think I'd still consider it not possible? not sure tbh)

So if there is the loophole corner-case with an item or two, that would explain the text wording. Sort of?

I wouldn't mind a minor "spoiler" about mentioning an item that would do that, just so I can get over this nagging feeling when a text and a specific ability contradict each other

Thanks!
 
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Jeff Hoffman
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Agherian wrote:
so why not reduce the text to "If the Tendril of Nyogtha has not been defeated after the second round of combat, the investigator is devoured."


Because the interpretation could be that you HAD to enter combat and defeat the monster or else you are devoured. The "evade" is just a reminder that you can attempt to evade it before entering combat.

Also, I seem to remember an event or ability that allows you to ignore a monster ability.
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foksieloy
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Perhaps they just wanted to future proof. "What if one day we release something that will allow you to skip this? Let's not increase the size of the FAQ beyond the current 7982 pages it is now."
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Gert Meyer
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Yup. There is no "special" meaning to the mention of Evade.

It really is just a reminder that you do have another option if you already know that you have no chance to take it down in two Combat rounds.
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Teeka
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Agherian wrote:
if an item mentions "evade" in any context (like "discard to automatically evade a monster", versus an Ambush monster with which you are already in combat
(...)
I wouldn't mind a minor "spoiler" about mentioning an item that would do that


I think Red Sign of Shudde M'ell fits the bill: first you enter combat, then you cast the spell to ignore the Ambush ability.

Red Sign of Shudde M'ell wrote:

Any Phase: Cast and exhaust to lower a monster's toughness by 1 (to a minimum of 1) and ignore one of its special abilities other than Magical Immunity until the end of this combat.

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Dan P.
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Ok I get it now, both the possible misinterpretation if it were not mentioned, and that some items might circumvent the ambush (a spell from the base game too as you mentioned!)

Thank you all very much, I can move on now to being defeated by it without much confusion goo
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Mark Evans
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Evade and Flee are different. Evade before combat. With Ambush there is no Flee.
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Teeka
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drmark64 wrote:
Evade and Flee are different. Evade before combat. With Ambush there is no Flee.

They're the exact same Evade skill check, there is no special 'flee check' with its own modifiers. All "Flee" means is "an(other) Evade attempt while already in combat".
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M.C.Crispy
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Teeka wrote:
drmark64 wrote:
Evade and Flee are different. Evade before combat. With Ambush there is no Flee.

They're the exact same Evade skill check, there is no special 'flee check' with its own modifiers. All "Flee" means is "an(other) Evade attempt while already in combat".
Nevertheless, clear terminology is important when discussing rules and using the actual game terminology in a rigorous manner helps make sure that everyone knows what it being talked about. Too many times I have been involved in technical discussions of various types where a contributor uses inaccurate terminology and causes bafflement and wasted cycles while people try to figure out what the issue being discussed is before actually being able to progress toward a solution.
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