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Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower» Forums » General

Subject: Silver Tower vs. Zombicide:BP vs. D&D adventure games rss

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Bradley Whittington
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How would you compare these games in terms of simplicity, fun factor, strategy, ease of learning, etc?
 
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gary gee
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silver tower probably the harder one to get into zombicide easy peasy to get into..D&D a bit more to it than zombicide but not as complex as Silver tower...all good games though
so summing up:
ST: a bit to learn.. good fun quite a bit of strategy involved.

D&D adventures games...pure d&d gaming made a bit easier by having boards etc... strastegy decent.

Zombicide [vanilla and BP]. very simple game mechanic and super easy to get into.but probably the most strategy based as well.

all great fun!!


 
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John Paul Messerly
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I've played and owned all three and I'd say the ease of learning is basically the same for all of them.

I only bought the first D&D adventure game but quickly sold it because it felt too generic and the strategies too obvious. I didn't like the original zombicide because the choices each turn felt too obvious and automatic but Black Plague does improve the system enough that I still own it. Of the three Silver Tower is the only one that feels like an interesting world to explore and an interesting villain to face off against. Each has a unique feel that is best expressed by comparing them to TV and movies...



- The D&D adventure games feel like that D&D move... super generic, tedious, and not inspiring.

- Zombicied Black Plague feels like an endless stream of Scooby Doo episodes. There is something magical about racing around the level being chased by bad guys and slipping away just in time into secret underground passages to stay just ahead of your pursuers hoping to stumble across the random element that will allow you to defeat them. The formula is a blast but it starts to get old after a while.

- Silver Tower feels like the movie Labyrinth. You are the underdogs taking on a super powerful magician and he is warping and twisting a surreal and magical maze around you. Around each corner is a new and exciting surprise.
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Joseph Sharkey
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I really don't even consider the D&D Adventure games anymore, feel like Descent is so similar and beats it hands down.

ST is a bit more to learn (still minor) than Z:BP, but is still firmly a beer & pretzels type game. It is going to take you a few hours to put everything together (assuming no to minor miniature building exp), but they are great minis (you get what you pay for). If you can deal with that then you'll have a blast.

You'd probably get more play time outta Z:BP just due to number of campaign missions and existing expansions. ST has yet to come out with a real expansion (not counting the cards for units that should been out to begin with, or the hero packs, since that is just a discount bundle of stuff that has existed for years). Definitely more variety in ST though.

Really comes down to time, and preference of minis/theme.
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azza rein
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ST is basically an improved D&D adv to me. D&D adv's main advantage is the D&D 4th edition skills and playstyle, but it gets stale VERY fast because you simply reveal a tile and spawn monsters, and you constantly get weaker over time. ST has a similar formula but spices things up with the campaign book with different entries, and the cards for each room which improves the narrative considerably. ST's main disadvantage is the number of treasures/skills are very small.
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Jared Voshall
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I would say that both Silver Tower and Zombicide are about on par with each other, with ST taking the lead in terms of fun factor for me personally.

Ease of Learning: Silver Tower. While there are more overall parts to a given game, everything's clearly written on your character or Monster cards, and it is a very straightforward ruleset. Zombicide loses in this category mostly due to the fact that each character may have 2-4 abilities on the card that you'll need to look up in the rulebook, with only a 1-2 word Keyword tied to it on the character sheet.

Core Game simplicity between the two is on par, with characters each having 3-6 pieces of relevant information on them at a given time. Monsters are more complex in ST, with generally 3 different weapon groups that can change their basic stats in addition to a full behavior chart for each critter - but that adds more variety to the game, as you essentially triple the basic minion count (incidentally giving each encounter more to ponder on strategically as you decide if you want to target the guy that deals 2 2-Damage hits or the one that makes 4 1-Damage hits). So, I would say that it's overall on par there, as well.

Which brings us to the amount of strategy each game has. Honestly, I would say that both are, again, about on par. Zombicide is all about figuring out how to get to your objective safely without getting swarmed, and knowing that you really aren't going to want to kill everything, while Silver Tower is more about effectively managing your actions and making sure you clear out a room before moving to the next one. Both require you to prioritize your targets, and can be very nasty if you're caught out of position, with ST punishing you more for taking damage, but also allowing you to more easily recover from it.

Both give you the feeling of running awesomely strong characters who are tearing through hordes of opponents, so they're on par there as well. The one major issue is character gender equality - to be perfectly frank, even with all the available characters, you only have a few women to choose from with Silver Tower, whereas Zombicide gives you a wide selection to choose from. Zombicide also requires you to find your gear every game, which also means that the same character can be very different in terms of power from game to game, while Silver Tower is very consistent (all depending on dice rolls, of course).

Overall, I give Silver Tower the win between the two because of a few factors. Because so much of the character power and play style is dependent on what gear you get, you can have a wildly different games of Zombicide playing the same scenario and characters. Because the bulk of the character's power comes on the card itself, with Skills and Artefacts adding minor tweaks to the character, you can pick a character and generally know how they'll perform in a given scenario. Because there's more meat to each of the monsters you face, there's more to consider in Silver Tower's encounters - but Zombicide is more objective focused, which gives it a very different feel, even if everything else played the same. In the end, I'd say get both. I think it's worth it (though I've only played through the Silver Tower campaign, not the Zombicide one...).
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Nick Wirtz
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Thanks for the comparison, Jared! Haven't played zombicide, but that gave me a lot to consider.
 
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Freelance Police
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Brad_wh1tt wrote:
How would you compare these games in terms of simplicity, fun factor, strategy, ease of learning, etc?


Might also want to consider assembly and expense of the components, particularly if you're a collector, as well as anything you'd like about the app. You can, of course, use the miniatures in other games, so there's that to consider.
 
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gary gee
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Sam and Max wrote:
Brad_wh1tt wrote:
How would you compare these games in terms of simplicity, fun factor, strategy, ease of learning, etc?


Might also want to consider assembly and expense of the components, particularly if you're a collector, as well as anything you'd like about the app. You can, of course, use the miniatures in other games, so there's that to consider.
Good point !!
 
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Jared Voshall
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tootz wrote:
Sam and Max wrote:
Brad_wh1tt wrote:
How would you compare these games in terms of simplicity, fun factor, strategy, ease of learning, etc?


Might also want to consider assembly and expense of the components, particularly if you're a collector, as well as anything you'd like about the app. You can, of course, use the miniatures in other games, so there's that to consider.
Good point !!


Definitely a good point. Everything for Zombicide comes pre-assembled, and the heroes use a different color plastic than the zombies, making them extremely easy to distinguish. However, the Silver Tower models, on the whole, have more detail and more interesting poses (the Alternate Abominations pack being a solid exception to the rule, with some very impressive sculpts) - though, the aesthetic of them are definitely not for everyone. Also, because everything uses the same gray hard plastic, it's much easier to confuse, say, the Kairic Acolytes with the heroes than what you see in Zombicide.

That said, the assembly instructions are solid and easy to understand, so putting Silver Tower together isn't too onerous a task, all told.
 
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Mlai00 Mlai00
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Major difference AFAIC? Price. You can comfortably purchase a AD&D plus the Z:BP base set, for the price of the WQ:ST base set (which I hear is not even truly complete?).

For same price, I can easily get the Z:BP base set, + Wulfburg expansion, + another 1 or 2 hero/monster sets. While the Silver Tower player has to separately purchase cards which GW decided not to include in the base box.

I have come to really hate GW as a company, to the point where I purposely dont look at their products.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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I'm sorry, but I really don't think that contributed to the conversation. I'm no GW fanboy (hated some stuff they did for a while; now I'm fairly ambivalent), but really, "how this compares is one's more expensive and I've heard some stuff and I don't like the company" isn't making a comparison of value.

Also, the expansion cards are... wait for it... expansion material. 6 heroes w/ models + 4 heroes encouraging you to buy models is plenty in a game designed around a 2-4 player party.
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Christopher
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Mlai00 wrote:
Major difference AFAIC? Price. You can comfortably purchase a AD&D plus the Z:BP base set, for the price of the WQ:ST base set (which I hear is not even truly complete?).

For same price, I can easily get the Z:BP base set, + Wulfburg expansion, + another 1 or 2 hero/monster sets. While the Silver Tower player has to separately purchase cards which GW decided not to include in the base box.

I have come to really hate GW as a company, to the point where I purposely dont look at their products.


Yes, and the quality of the models in Warhammer is worlds beyond any competing game. The gameplay is also completely different between the 3 games, but you've got a hateboner for GW so you probably don't care anyway.
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Nick Wirtz
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The minis are nice, but I'd have trouble arguing it's worlds beyond, when there's Journey and Kingdom Death as other co-op fantasy games.
 
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Mlai00 Mlai00
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Exactly. We may disagree on how much hate we should throw at GW, but I agree with you that the days when GW makes the only minis in town worth a damn are over. They can charge an arm and a leg in their arena of tabletop minis where fanboys willingly accept their prices, but if they want to mosey on over to the boardgames arena, nowadays they have stiff competition.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Okay, like I said, I haven't played either of the OP's comparison games, however, regarding other, relatively to very expensive co-op games I've played...

Journey: like Journey's materials better, but Journey has clunky mechanics (not bad, just clunky), more elaborate rules but probably not heavier than ST. If journey's movement system weren't so irritating, I think I'd like it better, but they are that irritating, so I like ST better.

Pandemic: despite pandemic having smart core mechanics, I think ST's variety wins out. Obviously other pretty dramatic differences, including price.

Mansions of Madness: in true FFG form, tons of components; lots of rules, meh PVC models, tons of setup time, rushed/poor editing. I prefer ST factoring in effort and frustrations with editing.

Ghost Stories: in the choice between brutally bad odds (not to be confused with brutal difficulty), or good odds, I'll take casual (but this has more to do with not liking the philosophy of bad odds for replay/difficulty). Again, some large differences, including price.

Kingdom Death: way more gaming components, replayability, and variety, but also way more money. Not all that much more complexity, but a lot more depth. I prefer KD.

Betrayal at the house on the hill: as far as light-weight immersive random exploration games go, I think I like betrayal better, despite the materials being kind of lame, but think these are about on par.


...looking at this list, I think ST falls pretty reasonably in the middle of my taste. By board game standards, it's on the expensive side, yes, but I don't think it's that much of an outlying case. Just depends on what nice minis are worth to you, because, removing that element, I expect the game would hit a comparable price to value as the lower production value games.



...edit: Oh, and I completely agree that GW's prices tend to be too high. I also think, though, that what you get for your $100+ board game from them tends to be pretty solid, and a far better deal than anything else they put out (so they're about the only things I buy from GW any more).
 
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Christopher
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
The minis are nice, but I'd have trouble arguing it's worlds beyond, when there's Journey and Kingdom Death as other co-op fantasy games.


I was referring to competing fantasy dungeon crawl games. 51 GW minis for $100 is a steal.
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Nick Wirtz
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It's $150, and I don't know how narrowly you need to define the genre-- what would you call parties of fantasy characters exploring rooms and fighting monsters, if not a dungeon crawl?
 
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Christopher
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
It's $150, and I don't know how narrowly you need to define the genre-- what would you call parties of fantasy characters exploring rooms and fighting monsters, if not a dungeon crawl?


The game is widely available on amazon and ebay for $80-$90, it'd be pretty silly to pay $150 unless you have a FLGS you really feel compelled to donate $70 to. Typically a dungeon crawl is defined as a fantasy game with characters exploring, fighting monsters, and getting loot. That's not Kingdom Death, and I haven't played Journey but it's minis don't look comparable in quality.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Eh, don't really agree with your price comparison, since you can get most anything in print cheaper.

Kingdom Death actually has all of those elements (in fact, those are basically the phases of the game in order), though in a different structure than typical, is basically a dungeon crawl on boss-rush mode, and, regardless, as a professional painter, the minis are far better to work with than silver tower's which are made of annoying trim (though they tend towards more static poses since most are are modular). Subjectivity aside, they are certainly not "worlds" apart in quality.

Journey is easily the best PVC I've ever worked with, same for single-piece/preassembled models, almost a resin-level of crispness, besides the game fitting all your criteria easily.
 
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JD Snider
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I wouldn't call Kingdom Death a dungeon crawler. It has some elements found in crawlers, but it's a pretty unique beast to be honest.

As for the minis, I think they're fantastic in both Kingdom Death and Silver Tower. I did find the GW ones significantly easier to assemble, however, which gives them a slight edge in that regard. Definitely not worlds apart quality-wise though. But I don't think that's what we're actually discussing here (as Kingdom Death isn't one of the games mentioned by the OP, and I'm not even sure I'd call it 'competing' with Silver Tower, in terms of theme, game-type, price or accessibility).
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Christopher
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Kingdom Death's minis are fantastically detailed, but the assembly is really brutal. It's more of a civilization-building game with tactical combat, not a dungeon crawl (unless every game with minis combat and a pseudo-fantasy theme is a dungeon crawl).

Yes, all games are cheaper than MSRP online, but Silver Tower is unique in that it's widely and easily found for almost 50% off all of the time.
 
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JD Snider
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SpoDaddy wrote:

Yes, all games are cheaper than MSRP online......


Well, except Kingdom Death
 
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Christopher
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quazai wrote:
SpoDaddy wrote:

Yes, all games are cheaper than MSRP online......


Well, except Kingdom Death


Now that a new kickstarter is launching for it...
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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There is a lot of overlap in gw/kdm forums these days, isn't it?

However, back on topic:
1. Don't be so sure that the new ks will be at discount (early birds and "pledge for everything" pledges aside)
2. Miniatures are always either overpriced or sculpted through some sort of cheat: it is true that materials and production costs have improved a lot, but getting good molds hasn't changed a lot price-wise in all these years.
3. Gw is undoubtedly the mother of overpricing, but in this particular subject I think you on the other side of the pond don't get the full picture. In the late 80s, with rogue trader available only retail at local store with less than 20 minis and prices (well, I was to young to know the price in GBP, but getting the full import game with two "factions" (armies? I think the name came later, but still, too young then) easily costed as much as a new VCR (for you kids, that was somewhat less than a new personal computer, and that was A LOT). Actually, the prices became BETTER in almost 30 years, and GW set the standard. No sense in talking FFG to compare, in FFG games minis are glorified monopoly tokens, while GW invented the term "the Hobby", when talking about miniatures.


Now that I'm done feeling old, I won't draw conclusions because talking prices with people with a different story than you can easily be insulting, but remember that the good old days weren't that good.

EDIT: oh, I also remember when AD&D stood for "ADVANCED dungeons& dragons"... Get off my lawn!)
 
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