$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 106.03

6,618 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
41.7% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
55 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Mechs vs. Minions» Forums » General

Subject: Resetting the Legacy-style aspects of this game rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Will it be easily accomplished? Like for instance if I wanted to let someone borrow it after I finished a campaign.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Remi Bureau
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Cards and booklets are marked to easily allow putting everything back in the dossiers. Shouldn't be a problem.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Baker Odom
United States
Bluffton
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
None of the changes of permanent so it's technically not a Legacy game. However, they've found a pretty cool way to create a campaign that encourages the players to avoid spoiling secrets in future missions and I believe there are instructions on how to reset it easily.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Dettmar
United States
Ontario
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
thebaker1983 wrote:
None of the changes of permanent so it's technically not a Legacy game. However, they've found a pretty cool way to create a campaign that encourages the players to avoid spoiling secrets in future missions and I believe there are instructions on how to reset it easily.


Yea, it's not legacy at all. It's more like a campaign. Imagine Arcadia quest, or zombicide, or any game that has scenarios, but the scenarios are hidden in seperate envelopes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
dettmarp wrote:
thebaker1983 wrote:
None of the changes of permanent so it's technically not a Legacy game. However, they've found a pretty cool way to create a campaign that encourages the players to avoid spoiling secrets in future missions and I believe there are instructions on how to reset it easily.


Yea, it's not legacy at all. It's more like a campaign. Imagine Arcadia quest, or zombicide, or any game that has scenarios, but the scenarios are hidden in seperate envelopes.


Yeah, that's why I said Legacy-style, not Legacy. If you look at the main page, though, it falls into the Legacy family apparently because of these Legacy-style elements, ie opening up of envelopes and revealing new bosses/mechanics, etc as you progress.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
RemiBureau wrote:
Cards and booklets are marked to easily allow putting everything back in the dossiers. Shouldn't be a problem.


Cool, that's what I wanted to hear, thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Willem Monsuwe
Netherlands
flag msg tools
alphasixty wrote:
Yeah, that's why I said Legacy-style, not Legacy. If you look at the main page, though, it falls into the Legacy family apparently because of these Legacy-style elements, ie opening up of envelopes and revealing new bosses/mechanics, etc as you progress.


I thought that a Legacy game is defined by how your actions during one game have an effect on subsequent games, which this game does not have at all. So I would agree this is a campaign game, but not legacy.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Baker Odom
United States
Bluffton
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
reynaert wrote:
alphasixty wrote:
Yeah, that's why I said Legacy-style, not Legacy. If you look at the main page, though, it falls into the Legacy family apparently because of these Legacy-style elements, ie opening up of envelopes and revealing new bosses/mechanics, etc as you progress.


I thought that a Legacy game is defined by how your actions during one game have an effect on subsequent games, which this game does not have at all. So I would agree this is a campaign game, but not legacy.


Yeah BGG sometimes has some inconsistencies in classifying games especially when they are brand new. I've submitted a request for a correction on MvM being classified as in the Legacy family so hopefully that'll be removed in a few days.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
reynaert wrote:
alphasixty wrote:
Yeah, that's why I said Legacy-style, not Legacy. If you look at the main page, though, it falls into the Legacy family apparently because of these Legacy-style elements, ie opening up of envelopes and revealing new bosses/mechanics, etc as you progress.


I thought that a Legacy game is defined by how your actions during one game have an effect on subsequent games, which this game does not have at all. So I would agree this is a campaign game, but not legacy.


Yeah but the opening of envelopes, revealing new rules/mechanics as you go as well as revealing new characters are very much Legacy tropes which this game has openly and admittedly borrowed (to give it a Legacy style experience without it actually being Legacy). Hence these aspects are Legacy-style. The only difference is that the changes are not permanent.

TO BE CLEAR, I wasn't asking whether this game WAS LEGACY or not, I wasn't asking if this was a CAMPAIGN game or not, or what the definition of a campaign or legacy game is (we all know what they are, it's not complicated), I was simply asking whether the aspects in this game that are LEGACY-LIKE are easily reversible. I've gotten my answer. We can all move along now.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dean Love
United Kingdom
Coventry
West Midlands
flag msg tools
alphasixty wrote:


TO BE CLEAR, I wasn't asking whether this game WAS LEGACY or not, I wasn't asking if this was a CAMPAIGN game or not, or what the definition of a campaign or legacy game is (we all know what they are, it's not complicated), I was simply asking whether the aspects in this game that are LEGACY-LIKE are easily reversible. I've gotten my answer. We can all move along now.


You can move along. If other people want to stick around and discuss something spinning off the question that's up to them. This is a discussion forum, not your personal question answering service.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Exactly how many envelopes does it take to qualify as a Legacy Game? Let's discuss that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
Exactly how many envelopes does it take to qualify as a Legacy Game? Let's discuss that.
Just one, but it has to have permanently lasting effects on future playthrough when opened.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Suitcase
Canada
Burlington
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It can also be a legacy game if you've bequeathed it to someone and die.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Shegda
United States
Greenville
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This isn't a legacy game therefore this won't be an issue. please stop calling it legacy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Dettmar
United States
Ontario
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ras2124 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Exactly how many envelopes does it take to qualify as a Legacy Game? Let's discuss that.
Just one, but it has to have permanently lasting effects on future playthrough when opened.


right. envelope does not equal legacy.

this game is a scenario based game where all the scenarios are hidden. You can play it as a campaign, but it is not a campaign game. Things (items, levels, character improvements, jewels and whatnot) do not carry over from game to game, and the game is not negatively effected if you just pick any random scenario to play.

take your copy of zombicide, tear out the pages with the scenarios in them and put them in separate envelopes and you have what this is.

there may be some story elements that carry over from scenario to scenario, but as far as the original question is concerned; there is nothing that even needs resetting.

I realize legacy vs. not legacy is not the issue, but I think it needs clarifying. there are plenty of games that have scenarios that have mechanics only used for the scenario, or enemies that are only in that scenario. that does not make it legacy; it doesn't even make it "legacy style". the legacy definition is extremely overused in this hobby.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cantrell
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
dettmarp wrote:


this game is a scenario based game where all the scenarios are hidden. You can play it as a campaign, but it is not a campaign game. Things (items, levels, character improvements, jewels and whatnot) do not carry over from game to game, and the game is not negatively effected if you just pick any random scenario to play.

take your copy of zombicide, tear out the pages with the scenarios in them and put them in separate envelopes and you have what this is.

there may be some story elements that carry over from scenario to scenario, but as far as the original question is concerned; there is nothing that even needs resetting.


I don't feel this is completely true. You can definitely do that, but only in the sense that it's your game and you can do whatever you'd like from a 'house rule' perspective. The campaign was definitely designed to be done in order - 'we teach rules as we needed to' is a great example. If you jump to the final mission, you won't know how to control the boss and potentially won't know where all the pieces are. You also unlock damage cards that you'd shuffle into the deck for future missions and the schematics provide variable powers that are intended to be available in a certain order. But again, to each their own. We worked to make it easily 'reset-able' so you can play previously unlocked missions with ease. The idea there is that you know the rules already and would be able to teach others rules that aren't in that specific dossier.

I, personally, have never considered it a Legacy game - but that's more from a 'I don't want to ride Rob Davieau's coattails' perspective than anything else. Legacy is a pretty hot term in the world of boardgames at the moment (justifiably), and I felt Rob had earned that. You don't destroy or write on anything, but we definitely worked to include a sense of ceremony as you unlock or discover new components. But again, you play it as you'd like.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If you can play through the game's content entirely and sell it as Like New it is not Legacy. The Legacy aspect is defined by games having lasting effects on future games, even those played by entirely different players.

What you have described seems identical to Earth Reborn, a game that basically pre-dates Legacy and if you search the forums, has never been referred to as Legacy.

Quote:
Earth Reborn offers nine scenarios that take you through missions of rescue, retrieval, and escort through areas of labs, mansions, towns, and more. Each scenario builds upon the rules of a new chapter: the game system is built like a tutorial. There are core rules to start the game, and each chapter offers 1-3 new rules along with a scenario that uses these new rules.


Essentially it is just a tutorialized campaign. Adding a sense of discovery to rules, while definitely a nice touch, doesn't change that.

Describing your game as Legacy-like but with an undo button sort of implies that you started with Legacy and changed it a bit. It's like calling a bike, car-like, just missing the engine, body, and a couple of wheels instead of calling it a bike.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Dettmar
United States
Ontario
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Riot Kades wrote:
dettmarp wrote:


this game is a scenario based game where all the scenarios are hidden. You can play it as a campaign, but it is not a campaign game. Things (items, levels, character improvements, jewels and whatnot) do not carry over from game to game, and the game is not negatively effected if you just pick any random scenario to play.

take your copy of zombicide, tear out the pages with the scenarios in them and put them in separate envelopes and you have what this is.

there may be some story elements that carry over from scenario to scenario, but as far as the original question is concerned; there is nothing that even needs resetting.


I don't feel this is completely true. You can definitely do that, but only in the sense that it's your game and you can do whatever you'd like from a 'house rule' perspective. The campaign was definitely designed to be done in order - 'we teach rules as we needed to' is a great example. If you jump to the final mission, you won't know how to control the boss and potentially won't know where all the pieces are. You also unlock damage cards that you'd shuffle into the deck for future missions and the schematics provide variable powers that are intended to be available in a certain order. But again, to each their own. We worked to make it easily 'reset-able' so you can play previously unlocked missions with ease. The idea there is that you know the rules already and would be able to teach others rules that aren't in that specific dossier.

I, personally, have never considered it a Legacy game - but that's more from a 'I don't want to ride Rob Davieau's coattails' perspective than anything else. Legacy is a pretty hot term in the world of boardgames at the moment (justifiably), and I felt Rob had earned that. You don't destroy or write on anything, but we definitely worked to include a sense of ceremony as you unlock or discover new components. But again, you play it as you'd like.


I suppose I should have lead with this, but of course, I have not played it. I'm making some assumptions based on the videos I've seen (and I didn't think they were giant leaps), but of course, having not played it, I could be wrong.

my main "beef" is stop calling it legacy. I do like the idea of hidden scenarios that you "unlock", but I also don't think it's revolutionary. Didn't mean to sound down on the game, because I really am looking forward to it
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm kind of astonished with the vehemence with which the various posters defend their definition of "Legacy".

I can see that if Rob Daviau expressed an opinion it would have some weight. But isn't everyone else just giving their own subjective views of what is clearly a very fuzzy concept?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Dettmar
United States
Ontario
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
I'm kind of astonished with the vehemence with which the various posters defend their definition of "Legacy".

I can see that if Rob Daviau expressed an opinion it would have some weight. But isn't everyone else just giving their own subjective views of what is clearly a very fuzzy concept?


No, not really. I think it's pretty clear that the main component that makes a game legacy is permanent irreversible changes
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
dettmarp wrote:
No, not really. I think it's pretty clear that the main component that makes a game legacy is permanent irreversible changes


Of course you think so. But if someone else thinks something completely different, how would we decide who is "right"?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Deano2099 wrote:
alphasixty wrote:


TO BE CLEAR, I wasn't asking whether this game WAS LEGACY or not, I wasn't asking if this was a CAMPAIGN game or not, or what the definition of a campaign or legacy game is (we all know what they are, it's not complicated), I was simply asking whether the aspects in this game that are LEGACY-LIKE are easily reversible. I've gotten my answer. We can all move along now.


You can move along. If other people want to stick around and discuss something spinning off the question that's up to them. This is a discussion forum, not your personal question answering service.


Lol. There's always someone like you, isn't there?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Riot Kades wrote:
dettmarp wrote:


this game is a scenario based game where all the scenarios are hidden. You can play it as a campaign, but it is not a campaign game. Things (items, levels, character improvements, jewels and whatnot) do not carry over from game to game, and the game is not negatively effected if you just pick any random scenario to play.

take your copy of zombicide, tear out the pages with the scenarios in them and put them in separate envelopes and you have what this is.

there may be some story elements that carry over from scenario to scenario, but as far as the original question is concerned; there is nothing that even needs resetting.


I don't feel this is completely true. You can definitely do that, but only in the sense that it's your game and you can do whatever you'd like from a 'house rule' perspective. The campaign was definitely designed to be done in order - 'we teach rules as we needed to' is a great example. If you jump to the final mission, you won't know how to control the boss and potentially won't know where all the pieces are. You also unlock damage cards that you'd shuffle into the deck for future missions and the schematics provide variable powers that are intended to be available in a certain order. But again, to each their own. We worked to make it easily 'reset-able' so you can play previously unlocked missions with ease. The idea there is that you know the rules already and would be able to teach others rules that aren't in that specific dossier.

I, personally, have never considered it a Legacy game - but that's more from a 'I don't want to ride Rob Davieau's coattails' perspective than anything else. Legacy is a pretty hot term in the world of boardgames at the moment (justifiably), and I felt Rob had earned that. You don't destroy or write on anything, but we definitely worked to include a sense of ceremony as you unlock or discover new components. But again, you play it as you'd like.


No, not a Legacy game, but a game that has some Legacy-like aspects to it, no doubt. Primarily the unlocking and discovery of new components.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Cordell
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
dettmarp wrote:
ras2124 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Exactly how many envelopes does it take to qualify as a Legacy Game? Let's discuss that.
Just one, but it has to have permanently lasting effects on future playthrough when opened.


right. envelope does not equal legacy.

this game is a scenario based game where all the scenarios are hidden. You can play it as a campaign, but it is not a campaign game. Things (items, levels, character improvements, jewels and whatnot) do not carry over from game to game, and the game is not negatively effected if you just pick any random scenario to play.

take your copy of zombicide, tear out the pages with the scenarios in them and put them in separate envelopes and you have what this is.

there may be some story elements that carry over from scenario to scenario, but as far as the original question is concerned; there is nothing that even needs resetting.

I realize legacy vs. not legacy is not the issue, but I think it needs clarifying. there are plenty of games that have scenarios that have mechanics only used for the scenario, or enemies that are only in that scenario. that does not make it legacy; it doesn't even make it "legacy style". the legacy definition is extremely overused in this hobby.


I didn't say the game as a whole was Legacy style, just certain aspects of it, which is undeniable.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
I'm kind of astonished with the vehemence with which the various posters defend their definition of "Legacy".

I can see that if Rob Daviau expressed an opinion it would have some weight. But isn't everyone else just giving their own subjective views of what is clearly a very fuzzy concept?
My main issue is people acting like this is a variation on Legacy, but it is basically what was done before Legacy existed. If we agree that some part of Legacy as a concept was innovative, then surely something that is essentially identical to what was widely done before Legacy is missing some of the key innovations and is therefore not really Legacy, even if the term is ill-defined.

If putting something in a box with some new rules to optionally add to a game sometimes is Legacy, then we might as well start talking about expansions as Legacy as well.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.