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BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: The First Debate: An Overview rss

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Steven Woodcock
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Actually thought I'd posted this already; apologies. Been very busy on other forums and with work.

==========================================

I watched this with GREAT interest, not so much because I expected it to change my mind (to me both candidates are well understood quantities)but because I wanted to see how each handled the forum.

Trump totally owned Hillary for about the first 40 minutes. He hammered her on economic policy, forced her to vainly defend her husband's policies, made a strong case for the benefits of cutting taxes and spurring economic growth. She had little to respond with beyond being snarky ("well you and your friends have certainly done well") and was very much on the defensive.

Then she rallied a bit, got under Trump's skin, and that's when thing began to go poorly for him. She attacked him on how he started his
business and that rattled him a LOT. He's very defensive when it comes to people criticizing him and he fell for that hook and sinker...the
longer he talked the more defensive he seemed. This middle section went quite badly for him I thought.

The final third of the debate things were a bit more even, but that's when the moderator began interfering pretty badly. We knew he was just
another liberal (yes I know he's supposedly registered as a Republican; he can still be a liberal) and he helped Clinton quite a bit in this
segment. I believe I counted 7? 8? followup questions in which he confronted and interrupted Trump while simultaneously letting Hillary get away with saying just about anything. Both candidates made some good points and landed some decent blows in this portion, with Hillary saying she wanted an "intelligent surge" in Iraq/Syria (details TBD) and Trump pointing out that while she had 40 years of experience it was all bad.

Both candidates failed on some of the most basic of details:

- We're NOT a democracy Hillary, we're a representative republic.

- I agree it was a smart business move to minimize taxes, Donald, but it's bad press particularly in that context.

- Hillary completely misrepresented the legal status of "stop and frisk" (it wasn't found unconstitutional per se, just as it was being implemented; the judge was quite clear changes could be made).

- Donald had no credible response about his lack of foreign policy expertise at all.

etc. etc.

Going Forward (Trump):

Trump BADLY needs to learn to take a chill pill and let attacks on him/his company/his family slide. He gets baited far too easily and the debate format didn't help him here. He needs to learn more, rehearse more, react less, and stay focused. He let a LOT of good opportunities for hammering Hillary go past because he was busy being defensive. Focus more on her flaws and failures (there are many), hammer her on her many security breaches and sloppiness with government secrets, continue to expose how bad her economic plans are.

Going Forward (Hillary):

Hillary BADLY needs to work on her "likeability" (for lack of a better phrase) and her facial expressions. The split screen was not her friend here, and she was often seen rolling her eyes and acting condescending. She's a smart woman and can certainly learn to fake it if she has to. She needs to continue working on ways to get under Trump's skin and throw him off his game; that's her best bet. Keep hammering on how she thinks he's unfit and keep bringing up his lack of foreign policy expertise.

Other:

The difference between the "snap" polls and the learned opinions of the media was predictable and, I think, indicative of how out of touch the MSM actually is. I also think a LOT of people only watched the first half hour or so in which Trump was clearly on the offense, going to bed because the debate simply ran later than they could stay up.

Overall I'd give Trump a VERY slight edge, 51% to 49%. He did quite solidly well especially on economics, and she did quite well holding her own and getting under his skin. I give him points for making her (try to) defend her husband's economic policies and her points for hammering him on a lack of foreign policy expertise.

A truly awesome election! I'm quite looking forward to the next debate.


Ferret
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Andy Leighton
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Ferretman wrote:
- We're NOT a democracy Hillary, we're a representative republic.


That is nitpicking way too much. A representative government can still be classed as a democracy. Using democracy by itself doesn't necessarily mean a direct democracy.

Quote:
- I agree it was a smart business move to minimize taxes, Donald, but it's bad press particularly in that context.


Maybe good business but it is poor politics.

Quote:

Hillary BADLY needs to work on her "likeability" (for lack of a better phrase) and her facial expressions. The split screen was not her friend here, and she was often seen rolling her eyes and acting condescending.


Strange because most commentators seem to say that the split screen didn't help Trump.
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J
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Quote:
The difference between the "snap" polls and the learned opinions of the media was predictable and, I think, indicative of how out of touch the MSM actually is.

Are you talking about the non-scientific online polls?
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Mac Mcleod
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It has since come out that 4chan and similar groups manipulated the snap polls.

I don't think Clinton lost control of her facial expressions until Trump went completely off the rails. Even then it was because Trump was doing so amazingly badly-- I mean everyone's talking about how bigly badly he did.

As they said in the SNL parody,

Lester: Mrs Clinton, are you crying?

Clinton: I just can't believe it would ever go so well. This is like I saw it in my dreams.

---

I thought ferret's summary went pretty well for the first third. Then he went off the rails.
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Oldies but Goodies ... Avalon Hill and
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Reasoned analysis. I disagree with some of what you say, but thanks for posting your point of view.

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J.D. Hall
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I would have reversed that -- Clinton 50.5%, Trump 49.5%. But neither really shined or changed many minds.

Still, wish Bernie had won the nomination.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Ferret's opinion of 40 minutes was interesting because most republican pundits on the talk shows put the point trump started losing much earlier at between the 20-30 minute mark.

It might be a good indicator of how trump supporters felt.
 
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