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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Strategy

Subject: First Turn Commands rss

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Daniel Grant
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Are there common first turn Commands you conduct each game?

What do you think of the below:

Commands 1-3: Ships enter Warp
Command 4: Exit Warp for ship #1 to explore adjacent system
Command 5: Reseach

Because the two ships in Warp will get a free Warp token during Refresh, ship #2 will be able to explore 1 system past the newly discovered system on the second turn. Ship #3 can do the same or wait another turn to go even further.

This technique could help beeline to first contact for an aggressive player. Thoughts?
 
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Todd Warnken
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I want to explore 2 systems on turn 1 to maximize my chances to build a colony on turn two.

My 1st turn:

Command 1: Put ship in warp.
Command 2: Ship exits warp.
Command 3: Put ship in warp.
Command 4: Ship exits warp.
Command 5: Research or put third ship in warp or if Fed, hegemony attempt if I found a level 1 (maybe level 2) civilization.
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Donald Jensen

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I tend to want to explore at least two systems on turn 1. This is for several reasons; 1) it maximizes chances options for colonization on turn 2 (possible even 2 systems), 2) takes advantage of the initial 6 planetary disc's from setup; and 3) by exploring two different directions you have more avenues to expand based on your opponents expansion.

My first turn preference is:
Command 1: Get first science project
Command 2-3: Explore first system
Command 4-5: Explore second system
 
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John Godwin
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I've been putting 2 ships in warp and exploring with them. If I get anything I can use from the explore I sometimes do that but I usually end up putting the 3rd ship into warp. I usually wait until round 2 to get an advancement.
 
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Daniel Grant
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For those exploring two systems on Turn 1, do you think there could be advantages to not doing that and attempting to keep your homeworld connected to the galaxy via a single space lane? A defensible choke point? It seems two systems branching off your homeworld provide two avenues of potential invasion.


 
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Nova Cat
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There are two basic approaches to your first turn:

1. The All-In
Build a fleet in your build phase. Commands 1-2: Send a single ship to an adjacent system. If it's safe for the fleet, spend commands 3-4 to that system to invade/colonize/hegemony/mine. Otherwise, send the fleet in a different direction. Last command to mine with the mining fleet, or invade, or hegemony, or launch projects, as appropriate/applicable.
Pros: Basically guaranteed to get that system.
Cons: It's only one system, and you spent a lot to get it.
Variant: Build 2 ships instead of 3, and spend your 3rd command to commission a fleet.

2. The Wide Explorer
Send 4 commands sending 2 ships in different directions. Last command same as above.
Pros: You get 2 system discs, potentially getting 2 new planets.
Cons: Individual ships are vulnerable to hazards in round 1, and can't effectively invade.
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Kevin Lacey
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What if you just put all of your ships at warp, built a starbase and launched a research project?

The advantage to this is that you can research shields level 1 so on your second turn all of your ships are rolling out into new systems with extra protection.
 
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Todd Warnken
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Seratone wrote:
What if you just put all of your ships at warp, built a starbase and launched a research project?

The advantage to this is that you can research shields level 1 so on your second turn all of your ships are rolling out into new systems with extra protection.


Level 1 shields cost 6 research and you will have 4 research on turn two.
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Daniel Grant
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Seratone wrote:
What if you just put all of your ships at warp, built a starbase and launched a research project?

The advantage to this is that you can research shields level 1 so on your second turn all of your ships are rolling out into new systems with extra protection.


What is the benefit of a starbase on your home planet? I'd think you would want it in a system closer to the action.
 
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Todd Warnken
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A starbase gives you an extra command.
It counts as a ship in a space battle in its system.
It adds to your hegemony resistance in its system.
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Nova Cat
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Starbase on your homeworld is not an invalid decision, but it's general considered inadvisable. It still gives you an extra commend every round, which can be important if you intend to spend commands farming phenomena, or using the mining fleet. However, general consensus is that waiting until you can put it further out is a better plan.

The real problem with not exploring any new systems on round 1 is that it really hurts your economy, since you can't colonize/invade/hegemony until a full round after you normally would. And you also can miss out on the guaranteed planetary systems, which can further hurt your economy.
 
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Daniel Grant
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Novacat wrote:

The real problem with not exploring any new systems on round 1 is that it really hurts your economy, since you can't colonize/invade/hegemony until a full round after you normally would. And you also can miss out on the guaranteed planetary systems, which can further hurt your economy.


But aren't there advantages to a slow start? Wouldn't you appear weaker than your opponents and thus less of a threat? Establishing your weakness in the beginning might make you a more appealing ally.

If your homeworld is connected by a single space lane, it also makes a defensible chokepoint that is less appealing to attack. Opponents seeking a Supremacy victory either need to fight down a single path to your homeworld or spend oodles of commands trying to forge a "back door". With careful exploration and positioning, you can probably block these off.

All theory in my head at this point. I am waiting on my pre-order copy from CoolStuffInc.
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James J

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Novacat wrote:
but it's general considered inadvisable.


Novacat wrote:
However, general consensus is


Sounds like there is a real active discussion forum out there somewhere. Can you tell me where it is? cool

As far as I can tell, most folks here are still waiting on their copies, and it's just a handful of people giving their personal impressions of this very new game.
 
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Nova Cat
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japester1 wrote:
Sounds like there is a real active discussion forum out there somewhere. Can you tell me where it is? cool

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1606680/first-turn-actions
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1649269/first-turn-commands
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Angelus Seniores
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Jatta Pake wrote:
Novacat wrote:

The real problem with not exploring any new systems on round 1 is that it really hurts your economy, since you can't colonize/invade/hegemony until a full round after you normally would. And you also can miss out on the guaranteed planetary systems, which can further hurt your economy.


But aren't there advantages to a slow start? Wouldn't you appear weaker than your opponents and thus less of a threat? Establishing your weakness in the beginning might make you a more appealing ally.

If your homeworld is connected by a single space lane, it also makes a defensible chokepoint that is less appealing to attack. Opponents seeking a Supremacy victory either need to fight down a single path to your homeworld or spend oodles of commands trying to forge a "back door". With careful exploration and positioning, you can probably block these off.

All theory in my head at this point. I am waiting on my pre-order copy from CoolStuffInc.


you could still establish a choke point further from your homeworld.
you can even establish the spacelanes between your planets in such a way that all their lanes are used up so others cant connect to it.
it also depends the play area, if you can move/explore away from other players then you can ensure a far/safe area.

generally, as players still want to explore further, using that exploration to connect to another player just comes naturally, ie its not like they spend x commands in complete waste.

also, since the placement of planets/lanes is mostly arbitrary choke points tend to appear frequently even if you are not creating them on purpose (once planets are fixed in place some distances between planets become unusable ie too far/too short to connect)

but purposely starting slow doesnt sound like a good idea; given the economy tends to grow based on what you can produce a slow start will affect all following turns and end up having a big effect.
 
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James J

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Novacat wrote:
japester1 wrote:
Sounds like there is a real active discussion forum out there somewhere. Can you tell me where it is? cool

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1606680/first-turn-actions
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1649269/first-turn-commands


Got it. So the "general consensus" is "Nova Cat and his two friends that have played a few games".
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Grish
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japester1 wrote:
Got it. So the "general consensus" is "Nova Cat and his two friends that have played a few games".


In Nova's defence, I remember reading somewhere that a GF9 person at gencon said it was generally considered a bad idea.

I am now also tending to agree with that position. In the early game, you don't really need that many commands because you won't have that many ships while you build your economy. Ships will be lost to hazards, card encounters and sacrificed to create nodes - that's an odd mechanic btw, crashing a ship into a planet to start a colony.

You can't just keep pumping out ships as you need that starting production to create nodes, otherwise you're left making only what your Home System produces.

The first turn, imho, is pretty standard. You have to go out and get those 2 guaranteed planets. The last command is either research, hegemony or put a ship into warp.

I think +1 shields is probably better than an early research (should help with farming phenomena), and you need 2 tokens to make more research nodes anyway, so Advancement cards can wait.

The second and third turns is where the decision making gets interesting. What planets did you draw? Are there few resources or does one planet have 2+ research nodes on it that can give you a big boost if developed asap? That is a cool aspect of this game, it is very dynamic.
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Daniel Grant
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Although your are guaranteed planets if you explore twice on Turn 1, the quality of the planets could vary wildly. You could be Federation and both planets end up Pre-Warp.

The consensus around Turn 1 Commands makes sense to me. I'm just wondering if alternatives are viable. Let's say you are Klingons and you
beeline to first contact with the Fed player. If they've dumped all their
resources into building their economy they may not have any defenses against you. You could zerg rush or force them to give you the 3 Prod trade agreement. I'm curious about how soon you could make first contact.
 
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Grish
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Jatta Pake wrote:
The consensus around Turn 1 Commands makes sense to me. I'm just wondering if alternatives are viable. Let's say you are Klingons and you beeline to first contact with the Fed player. If they've dumped all their resources into building their economy they may not have any defenses against you. You could zerg rush or force them to give you the 3 Prod trade agreement. I'm curious about how soon you could make first contact.


Sure, you can pull a bad planet, but you can also pull a good one. More than likely it will be of use to you. The odds are in your favour so you need to go for it.

Also, you don't want to get stuck with a bunch of phenomena, you need planets to win.

Why do you need planets to win? Well that leads into your second question about bee-lining it for the Feds. You can't do that on turn one. You need to get a production base going. If you don't have planets making stuff for you, all you'll be be doing it making 3 resources every turn.

There is a good chance you will be losing ships in the early game to exploration cards or hazards too. You need to establish a base of production to replace those loses, and to replace ships lost during colonization.

Turn 1 is not as important as the later turns.
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James J

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All good points. I think two exploratory ships in the first turn are a must. Only that last command is up for grabs.

I'll finally test it out with my group next week, but I'm anticipating that planet placement will cause the most AP with me. This is going to be one game where pics of how people's "boards" ultimately developed will be really interesting to see.
 
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Coyote81 aka Token
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The biggest problem with putting a starbase on your home planet is that unless you already have a 2nd one out a different planet, if someone takes your homeworld, you now have given up both possible location you could build new ships to take back your home system, effectively removing you from the game. Starbases are your protection from getting put out of the game because you are unable to build more ships.
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Grish
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Coyote81 wrote:
The biggest problem with putting a starbase on your home planet is that unless you already have a 2nd one out a different planet, if someone takes your homeworld, you now have given up both possible location you could build new ships to take back your home system, effectively removing you from the game. Starbases are your protection from getting put out of the game because you are unable to build more ships.


Good point.
 
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Aaron Bevan
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First game I played I put a starbase on my home system as I figured more actions earlier is better but I don't feel this is the best use anymore.

As far as starting actions go nothing will get you farther ahead than early hegemony so Warp level 1 or 2 civs are the most desirable except for maybe the guardian of forever.

In the case you get a virgin instead (they take more work) it is best not to spend your production first turn as you will want to be able to build infrastructure as fast as possible.

As Klingons I always beline to first contact as the Marauder fleet is great at keeping you supplied with production while slowing down your opponent. Production planets are best and im lucky if I get more than one tech done.

Romulans play well as isolationist's focusing on research to crush your opponents with advanced tech when the time is right.

Feds need to scout and then use their fleet bonuses appropriately. I find it is easiest for them to get an early lead but holding onto it is hard.

 
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