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Scythe» Forums » General

Subject: Game design question: Why are recruits less powerful on two players? rss

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Gustav Weberup
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Lund
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With two players (and solo with single automa) you can receive the recruit bonus from other players a maximum of one time per round, opposed to two times per round on three or more players.

Was this ever so in the playtesting or was it a later alteration?
Either way I wonder why this is the case.

Personally I feel recruits are very good (my favorite improvement next to the first few upgrades and first mech) on 3+ players but less so with two so it affects my gameplay a lot depending on player count (and a big reason I prefer solo with at least two automas).
 
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Kristo Vaher
Estonia
Tallinn
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It isn't less powerful. It simply says that in two player the player opposite to you is not left AND right at the same time, thus not getting a double bonus.

In fact, without this rule, Enlist would be far too powerful against some faction-mat combinations. Since in 3+ player game it is unlikely for left and right players to focus on exact same strategy you are leeching off from.

It would be too powerful in a two-player game.
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Connor Cranston
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Don't forget you also receive the (unlocked) enlist bonus when you perform an action yourself.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Kristo's reasons are the same reasons as mine. For at least part of blind playtesting, you got a double recruit bonus in a 2-player game when your opponent used the corresponding bottom-row action. It's the type of mathy thing I should have figured out even before then (it didn't really require testing to know it was overpowered), but fortunately our playtesters identified it and we fixed it.
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Gustav Weberup
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jameystegmaier wrote:
Kristo's reasons are the same reasons as mine. For at least part of blind playtesting, you got a double recruit bonus in a 2-player game when your opponent used the corresponding bottom-row action. It's the type of mathy thing I should have figured out even before then (it didn't really require testing to know it was overpowered), but fortunately our playtesters identified it and we fixed it.

All right, thank you for the answer!
 
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Frank Hamrick
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Rocky Mount
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Regarding the "Recruit Bonus" in Scythe: It has been my 'luck' that in the last 3(!) games I've played, I got my 'recruits' out early for long-term benefit, only to be sandwiched between two neighbors who seldom, to never took a bottom action! Of course, they both lost badly, but their damage to me was enough to keep me from winning. I lost the last game by a mere 3 points to a guy who sat beside one of my neighbors, but his other neighbor gave him numerous bonuses throughout the game from recruitment/enlist bonuses.
 
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Kristo Vaher
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Webbe wrote:
jameystegmaier wrote:
Kristo's reasons are the same reasons as mine. For at least part of blind playtesting, you got a double recruit bonus in a 2-player game when your opponent used the corresponding bottom-row action. It's the type of mathy thing I should have figured out even before then (it didn't really require testing to know it was overpowered), but fortunately our playtesters identified it and we fixed it.

All right, thank you for the answer!


Also you can think of it this way:

There is player A, B and C, each with 1 point each. Player A does something to get 2 points which gives player C 1 point - as if C has Enlist.

So player A has 3, B has 1 and C has 2. If player B does something that also triggers enlist and gives him 2, then the board ends with each player having 3 points. Then C makes a move to get 2 points that isn't triggered by others, ending up with C with 5 and others with 3 points. And this is the best case scenario for player C, where two players have to make it possible.

So.. In a two-player game, only B and C are playing, both have 1 points. B does something and C triggers twice and both have 3 points. B does something and end result is B with 3 points and C with 5.

This is a red herring. You think it is fair (C still has 5, B has 3 like in three player game), yet C has just 1 opponent with 3 points - not two.

Why is it a problem? Well, math. The average difference between opponents is after that round 2 points, instead of 1 in three-player game.

Thus it is not a scalable bonus for the board state overall and it would veer Scythe two player game too much to be dominated by early Enlist that leeches off most useful bottom row actions on opponent board.
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