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Tyrants of the Underdark» Forums » General

Subject: Promoting Mechanism kinda broken! rss

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qy goh
Malaysia
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Promoting Mechanism kinda broken!

First of all, my friends and I really enjoy this game, but we all agree that the promoting mechanism is broken. If a player focus on promoting cards he will more likely to win and score 20~40 more points compare to other players.

My friends and I played this game a lot when i first introduce it to them, we tried all the half deck combinations and we all felt that if a player is focusing on promoting cards, he will win and nothing others can do about it.

If a player is focus on something else it can be sabotage, but if he is focus on promoting what can we do?

We tried to buy the promoting cards so no one can dominate the "Ambition" cards, but the game become harder to play and lost the fun of it.


If you also have similar experience or have a solution please comment.

I really like this game, although i heard so many negative things about this game and kinda agree most of them, but i still like this game a lot. I really hope the developers can fix this in future expansions.
 
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Chris Ruf
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Acworth
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The board rush strategy will beat the promote strategy typically. If you go heavy Malice/Conquest, you can end the game before the average promote focused player can score their high value cards. I ended the game this way in my most recent pay with just 80 points. The Ambition/Guile player only had 64.

The promote strategy is very dependent on how many promote cards come up in the early game. Obviously there is some luck involved and if a person gets multiple promote cards it can be tough to stop. But try to be aware if someone is gunning that way. You should then focus on Malice/Conquest and bum rush the board.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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bluefang wrote:
If a player is focus on something else it can be sabotage, but if he is focus on promoting what can we do?


The Ambition deck (which contains most of the Promote cards) is a very slow deck and mostly incapable of developing the board. It becomes stronger over time. The solution is to shorten games.

The Conquest cards are all extremely efficient at taking over the board. A player focusing on Conquest can easily take over half the board in a 4 players game and will be the clock of the game because it WILL end as soon as they played their 40th soldier.

In our games the mostly Conquest-focused and Ambition-focused decks are more or less equal. We're still trying to develop a strategy revolving around the spies. Malice is versatile and can play both side of the game, it will tend to have points distributed in every category, but it will not be the clock. You need a strong Conquest player on the board to rein in Ambition.

Conquest wants short games
Ambition wants long
Malice wins on the medium length

Guile, for us, loses. We'll see if we can make it work later.

Ambition will have few soldiers in the early game so wants to focus on taking over maybe one site token and to ensure all their sites are total control.

Conquest wants to spread out and cut off other players' access, and only starts filling in behind their battle lines afterwards. Because a lot of its cards are very efficient in Deploy but explicitly say Deploy instead of providing power (to Assassinate), they NEED to ensure that they have room to grow in the late game. Almost all their early guys will be on routes, not on sites. They also need to secure access to white troops so all their Assassinate White Troops cards are effective.

Malice plays the hybrid game. They can take over sites easier because of their efficient Assassinate game, but they can't spread quite as fast.

Guile I still have no idea what to do with.

Also: outside of playing with Elemental Evil, you're probably going to be focused on two of these strategies, not one. The best pairings tend to be Ambition/Guile and Conquest/Malice, but I think there's a decent deck for almost all these pairings except maybe Ambition/Conquest. We've been playing a lot with Elemental Evil and in that one, the single-focus decks with a small splash of other types is way better than a dual-focus deck.
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R. Eric Reuss
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Arlington
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bluefang wrote:
My friends and I played this game a lot when i first introduce it to them, we tried all the half deck combinations and we all felt that if a player is focusing on promoting cards, he will win and nothing others can do about it.

Huh. Given my plays thus far, I'd been wondering if promoting was a viable primary strategy at all - I've always seen the game end due to troop placement before promotion was able to score significant points. (The one exception being a game where I managed to promote something worth 12, which gave me a net of 20 points worth of promoted cards. Still not exactly a game-winner, though combined with my board position / trophy hall / city VPs it did get me the win.)

Pushing on board control just seems really good - it lets you seize control of areas (earning points) and kill opposing troops (earning points) while accelerating endgame (and putting its timing under your control)... not to mention city bonuses.
 
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R. Eric Reuss
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
Guile I still have no idea what to do with.

Our recent games have seen a shift from "spies as spoilers" (used to disrupt city bonuses or to pick off troops in opponent-controlled areas) to "spies as entry-points to Conquest's backcourt".

(Also, placing troops via spies allows more bang-for-the-buck per troop, since you don't need to spend them transiting hallways - though this does admittedly leave you unguarded - and you can focus on areas where lower #s of troops will get you total control, or where the VP-per-troop ratio is better.)

But it sounds like you've played rather more than we have, so you may well have explored these avenues already!
 
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Darrell Goodridge
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Windsor Locks
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I think the biggest difference is, everyone can get a piece of the area control pie even without special cards. Assassinate is always available as is deploy. However, if someone focuses on Promotion, then those are points that ONLY that player is getting. So if one player scores 20-30 points in a category that only they are in, then that's huge. And 30 points is typically more than all but maybe one other category.
 
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Chris Ruf
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I don't think anyone is saying to completely ignore promoting. I think every strategy benefits from some promote. A couple ambition promote card to help buy the better conquest/malice cards and help promote is very useful. But a focus on conquest/malice can end the game very quickly. Typically fast enough that a ambition strategy can't come to full fruition.
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qy goh
Malaysia
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thanks guys for the feedback, i think you are right, we drag too long and Ambition deck have huge advantages. Next will try to push the game faster
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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darker wrote:
bluefang wrote:
My friends and I played this game a lot when i first introduce it to them, we tried all the half deck combinations and we all felt that if a player is focusing on promoting cards, he will win and nothing others can do about it.

Huh. Given my plays thus far, I'd been wondering if promoting was a viable primary strategy at all - I've always seen the game end due to troop placement before promotion was able to score significant points. (The one exception being a game where I managed to promote something worth 12, which gave me a net of 20 points worth of promoted cards. Still not exactly a game-winner, though combined with my board position / trophy hall / city VPs it did get me the win.)

Pushing on board control just seems really good - it lets you seize control of areas (earning points) and kill opposing troops (earning points) while accelerating endgame (and putting its timing under your control)... not to mention city bonuses.


With Drow/Elemental Evil i once built a deck that ended up trim at 13 cards, with 26 cards in the Inner Circle. I had no Obedience left in the deck and i could see my power cards much more often than most players do.

It is not just the Inner Circle points, it is also the fact that you end up Assassinating two troops and purchasing 6 Influence cards in a turn...
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Anon Y. Mous
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Rock is kinda broken. If I use scissors, I don't stand a chance. On a more serious note, identifying the optimal time for the game to end and manipulating the game to make that happen, is a major part of strategy. New players tend to be slower, and an Ambition focus is really good at punishing that, which makes it quite strong at a low level.
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