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Firefly: The Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Completing a 2 Part Job: RAW vs RAI rss

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Kevin Rush
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With the expansions there a quite a few Pick-Up/Drop-Off jobs that require misbehaving to load goods. For example:


So let's say I start the job but fail my misbehaves, I do not get to load the 2 Contraband and 2 Fugitives. Being down on my luck, I decide to fly elsewhere. During my fly I come across a broken down ship which has 2 Contraband and 2 Fugitives. Can I now fly to Beaumonde to complete the job?

RAW seem to say I can. A job becomes active when I do my first work action. And in order to complete the job I need to use a Work Action two times in the appropriate locations. I cannot find anything mentioned in the rules (or on the forum) about whether the first part needs to "proceed." The checks are 2 work actions, job NEEDS, required goods/people. This is also somewhat supported by needing to replace the goods if I lost them. Example: I passed the Misbehave, but then Harken took my contraband and fugitives, then I got the Salvage Op to replace them.
FAQ wrote:
Question: When do Jobs become “Active”?
Answer: A Job becomes Active when you first
use a Work Action on the Job. Regardless of
what happens after starting the Work Action, it is
now an Active Job until completed or discarded
because a Warrant is Issued.

RULEBOOK wrote:
Delivery Jobs
Delivery Jobs require you to pick up
something at one location and deliver
it to another. You must use a Work
Action at both the Pick-Up and DropOff
Location to complete the Job.


RAI: I am not so sure this should be allowed. This defeats the purpose of the higher count Misbehave jobs (especially from Niska). A solo captain can work several delivery jobs for Niska fail all their misbehaves, then get the goods some other way and complete the job. While this may not be the best strategy, it could work occasionally and seems very gimmiky.

Thoughts? Or better yet, a rule citation that I overlooked.
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Ralph Stratford
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The Kalidasa Rules say this about Bonus Opportunities:

"Bonus Opportunities need to be done after starting the Job, but before completing the Job".

I think the key is the word "starting". Until you have passed the Misbehave Card to actually load the Contraband and Fugitives, you have an Active but unstarted Job (and these two are quite different states).

I don't think you can have a "started" Job if you failed to pass the Misbehave Card to Load the Contraband and Fugitives.

So until you successfully pass a Misbehave Card you can't do the Drop Off part of the Job as the Job has not been started yet (though it is Active).

If it was not meant to be interpreted this way, there would also be nothing to prevent you from completing the Job by dropping off Fugitives at the destination and thereby avoided passing the Misbehave Card required to start the Job in the first place.



 
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torgo shuffle
New Zealand
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RAW, Base Rulebook pg 14: To complete the Job you must successfully Proceed through the number of Misbehave Cards pictured.

RAI: this includes Misbehave Cards required to begin the Job in the first place, if any
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Ralph Stratford
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torgoshuffle wrote:
RAW, Base Rulebook pg 14: To complete the Job you must successfully Proceed through the number of Misbehave Cards pictured.

RAI: this includes Misbehave Cards required to begin the Job in the first place, if any
In addition on page 14 it also says under the heading:

Proceed

If your chosen [Misbehave Card] option results in "Proceed", you may continue to work the Job, following the instructions on the Job.

The instructions on the above Job allow you to do a Bonus Drop Off, so if you have not passed the Misbehave Card by 'proceeding', you may not continue to work the Job, which must therefore include not being able follow the instructions relating to the Bonus Drop Off.
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John Coxon
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Note that the card says Pick-up -> Persephone -> Misbehave to Load 2 Contraband and 2 Fugitives. The card makes it pretty clear that you have to complete all of those steps at Persephone. Completing the pick-up somewhere else wouldn't count toward this objective.
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Kevin Rush
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torgoshuffle wrote:
RAW, Base Rulebook pg 14: To complete the Job you must successfully Proceed through the number of Misbehave Cards pictured.

Don't know how I missed that first sentence after the example picture. That is what I was looking for.

Dalek1 wrote:
The instructions on the above Job allow you to do a Bonus Drop Off, so if you have not passed the Misbehave Card by 'proceeding', you may not continue to work the Job, which must therefore include not being able follow the instructions relating to the Bonus Drop Off.

This was more about completing the job than doing the Bonus portion, but it is still an important point to bring up.

Soltaris wrote:
Note that the card says Pick-up -> Persephone -> Misbehave to Load 2 Contraband and 2 Fugitives. The card makes it pretty clear that you have to complete all of those steps at Persephone. Completing the pick-up somewhere else wouldn't count toward this objective.

Right, but The main question was: can I complete an Active Job by just doing the Drop-Off. Since I can activate it at Persephone, can I complete it some other way. The card does not make it clear the the good need to be picked up at Persephone to complete the job. In fact, if that were true, losing the goods before Drop-Off would mean 99% complete failure unless you got a Salvage Op on Persephone.

Also John, you should edit your posts instead of deleting them and reposting. My phone likes to ping a notification every time a new post is made, and then seeing a new post on something in my subscriptions only to find out it is the same post I read several minutes ago is slightly disheartening.
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Roger BW
United Kingdom
High Wycombe
Buckinghamshire
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I think of it as a progress counter. When you start the first work action, the job moves from inactive to active, the progress counter is zero, and the only phase of the job you can work is the first. When you Proceed through the first work action, the progress counter becomes 1, and the only phase of the job you can work is the second. When you Proceed through the second, the counter becomes 2, and the job moves from active to completed.

The dropoff may only be done when the progress counter is 1. But for any individual action it doesn't matter where the contraband or fugitives came from.
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George Krubski
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Krushhhhh wrote:
Also John, you should edit your posts instead of deleting them and reposting. My phone likes to ping a notification every time a new post is made, and then seeing a new post on something in my subscriptions only to find out it is the same post I read several minutes ago is slightly disheartening.


Is that what's going on? I noticed it too, but didn't know why.

Yes, please. +1 to this sentiment!
 
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John Coxon
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Sorry I didn't realize that was generating alerts and I'll avoid doing that in the future. As for the Pick-ups/Drop-offs, I think of each of these as a distinct objectives. You can't start on the second objective until you are completely done with the first.
 
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Jamie Specht
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Downers Grove
Illinois
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Hey what's RAW and RAI mean?

Wait. Think I figured it out:
Rules as written vs rules as intended
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