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Summoner Wars: Master Set» Forums » General

Subject: Why should I like this game? rss

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Andrew Godby
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I bought the Summoner Wars: Master Set, Second Edition a while back. I played a few games. Didn't like it. After not playing it for months, decided to give it another try. Absolutely hated it!

I'm very curious why people like this game so much. I want to like it, but I find it dreadful and boring. Not to mention, after looking into other factions, a lot of them seem to have very similar if not exact powers.

Can anybody convince me to like this game, or should I give up hope on that?
 
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Nicholas
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Can you go into details about specifics, which you dislike?
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Charles Fox
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You have made up your mind and are just looking to debate/fight with people.You hate it, get rid of it, move 8n with yourself.
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Alexandre Santos
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Perhaps you should try playing with a good player? That may help you go over some bumps in how to deploy your units, etc.

Often a game seems boring because you have no clue of what the real deal is.
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Sergio Torres
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I like to play it with my girlfriend because we can just pick up any random deck and have a battle for 15-20 mins...

- The length of the game is ideal.
- The decks are generally very balanced.
- In every game we normally get to play with most of the cards in the deck without any kind of deck-building effort.
- Battles are balanced, and it's difficult to tell until the last turn who is winning. We always have hopes to win.
- The rules are so easy we never need to go back to the rulebook and remember them.
- It demands you to take meaningful decisions - whether to build magic or wait until you can play the unit, whether to play a wall now or later to create a surprise attack with a powerful unit...
- It feels like a battle in a miniatures/skirmish game but without all the effort and the hassle.
- We have all the decks but we are still casual players, so we don't know each deck by heart, and we always find surprises in both our own and enemy units...
- It is competitive - it makes you to want to win. But when you lose is not as frustrating and sad like other longer games.

So it has all the ingredients to see the table very frequently, and it has conquered the position of being our go-to game every time we want to play something quick after having dinner...

PS: I have had the game for 3+ years now, and I estimate we have played like between 150-200 games. We have all the summoners, always play a pre-built deck and we are not interested in deck building.
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Matt Connellan
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I don't see why anyone would want to convince you to like this game. Sell your set to someone who will play it.
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N Burghardt
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Not saying you'll like this game, but I felt like you did when first owned it. I saw Tom Vasel's review and bought the game, but was finding it disappointing. After playing some good players on the app, it totally turned the light on and became one of my favorites. I don't recommend expecting that from the app right now, due to a few units that can frustrate players that got added. If you want fun app matchs go to the plaidhatgames.com forums and post looking for matches without rune mages outside of Rallul's deck. In fact I'm happy to play some app matches if you'd like.

Things you learn that make the game so much better:
-don't summon commons with no purpose; commons die easily and feed magic to your opponent, champs are better economically; commons can often be built to allow for more champs and commons are better for flanking champs/summoner, wall crowding, surrounding summoners/champs, etc. Many of the latest summoners released provide buffs and advantages for commons, so what I just said isn't as absolute with the newest content.

-events are usually for big key moments of play; don't just use an event because you can, use it because it will allow for a strategic advantage, they are capable of changing a match dramatically.

-build 1-2 magic per round to build up for a strategic rush; commons are good build cards, sometimes events that feel too situational are as well.


Try those things first and see if it improves your enjoyment of the game.

Also, avoid someone playing Tacullu unless the opponent doesn't mind a frustrating counter faction to deal with. He can be a fun sucker for many players.
 
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Paul Bunyan
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Time to necro this topic!

Summoner Wars has had a lot of design pits and valleys. The Master Set is one of the better entries, but there a lot of design decisions that don't appeal to everyone. A lot of people consider Summoner Wars a beat 'em up kind of game, but it is really an economic planning game. When to spend what, when to attack, when to bait, when to use resources (such as events and walls), when to trick the opponent into playing events and units, etc. For some factions, that means more waiting or being more threatening. While the basic movement and attack rules all appear similar, how that plays out in different factions varies widely.

Overall, I have two recommendations:
1) If you're bored with how similar the factions are, start with the Second Summoners and Alliances sets. They only get more diverse as you go.
2) Continue to play with the same faction multiple times in a row. You'll see the game unfold differently as you play.

I'd say play with an experienced player, but there aren't many of us, as I've found. There are a few on Vassal.
 
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Alejandro Magno
Argentina
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I think it's better to answer the question, when the question specify why it wasn't liked in first place.

I enjoy summoner wars because it combines 3 elements i like in games.

-Tactical grid movement
-Resource managment
-Mind games.

And the game does it in a very elegant package. You need very few components to play (compared to other games with similar combinations of skill tests), the game are relative short (45-60) minutes and all this while being a very deep game.

If you know any other game that does all this I'm highly interested.
I know some people call games like this Salad games. Because it has many mechanics.

For example Neuroshima hex is a more pure game, it´s only about tactical tile placement, and NOTHING ELSE.
A game like splendor is more pure because it´s only about resource managment.
A game like Avalon is only about mindgames.

If you like pure games, Summoner wars will be horrible. But if you like Salad games like Cyclades, Kemet, Nexus ops, etc etc.
Summoner war is the only one that combines so many things I like in an elegant package and with short but deep play.

Generally games that involve so many different mechanics, are too long, too unelegant, too shallow or just can't be played 1v1.

So it´s ultimately of, are you looking for that?
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K
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Waterd wrote:

I enjoy summoner wars because it combines 3 elements i like in games...
-Mind games.


I'm interested in hearing more about mind games in Summoner Wars. Examples?
 
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Alejandro Magno
Argentina
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The most classic example is tacullu. Did you keep an event in hand despite mimic? or your 2 cards in hand are non events?

Sometimes you can pretend that you have something in the deck that you don't.
For example In my group we play with hidden build (which btw I think it´s the most fun way to play sw) and have been playing saturos lately, and I play my walls in way that the opponent has to play around Melek, even when I do not have him in my deck.

I often burn my cues with summoners because i know people play spectacularly aggressive against them, and instead of that i just build a hand and magic to bomb the board in a single turn.

Then there is the classic "you do a mistake", that will leave your opponent wondering if you really did that mistake, or it's a trap.

The other day i was playing krusk and I got 3 taunts clogged in my hand, and I quickly used two in inneficient way to entice my opponent to not play around taunt (it worked).

I could go on.

The two main sources of mind games are how you build your deck and how you seem to play wiht respect of your deck
and
Events. Events are very powerfull but generally hard to play them all and some are very situational.

The major setback of mindgames is what I consider one of the big design flaws of summoner wars.
The draw phase comes BEFORE the Event phase instead of some point after.
This means that even if you read your opponent correctly, he may just topdeck the card. Which also means is correct to play around a card even you know it's not in teh opponent card. If I would change the rules of summoner wars, that is the third change i would make (after anti stalemate rule and some magic wall rule)
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