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Subject: 60 Minutes special on Artificial Intelligence rss

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Shawn Fox
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http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/artificial-intelligence/

I watched this last night before the debate. Some really interesting stuff going on in using AI to aid medical diagnoses. The big issue doctors are having today is that there is so much research going on that it is becoming impossible for doctors to keep up with the latest results. IBM has been training their Watson system (the Jeopardy AI) to read all new research as it is published and use that information to suggest possible treatments for cancer patients.
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Mac Mcleod
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sfox wrote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/artificial-intelligence/

I watched this last night before the debate. Some really interesting stuff going on in using AI to aid medical diagnoses. The big issue doctors are having today is that there is so much research going on that it is becoming impossible for doctors to keep up with the latest results. IBM has been training their Watson system (the Jeopardy AI) to read all new research as it is published and use that information to suggest possible treatments for cancer patients.


Just keep in mind that whenever a computer does it successfully, it's no longer A.I.
 
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Robert Wesley
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Re: 60 Minutes special-ed on Artificial Intelligence
shake Have A-N-Y of these EVER been "accused" with 'being' 'moi'? What manner of 'concocted dishing' would this comprise 'characteristically'!
sauron -Chef Watson:~""CHINESE`S!""
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J.D. Hall
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It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI.
 
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Shawn Fox
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remorseless1 wrote:
It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI.

As has already been pointed out, everyone loves to keep moving the goalposts on what AI means. Calling Watson a search engine is like calling a modern automobile a wagon. There is a lot more going on than just matching search terms. You think they are using a room full of computers to just do a basic search through a lot of text to find matches? The CPU on an average smart phone provides plenty of power to do something that simplistic.
 
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J.D. Hall
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sfox wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI.

As has already been pointed out, everyone loves to keep moving the goalposts on what AI means. Calling Watson a search engine is like calling a modern automobile a wagon. There is a lot more going on than just matching search terms. You think they are using a room full of computers to just do a basic search through a lot of text to find matches? The CPU on an average smart phone provides plenty of power to do something that simplistic.

So it doesn't search millions of documents to come up with possible diagnoses and avenues of treatment?? Funny, I could have sworn that's what was said. Sure, you can fine tune the programming to be more detailed than identifying "key words," but still, it's a search. Show me Watson doing the diagnosis of an actual live human being after conducting an examination, and I'll be more impressed. Doesn't mean I'm not impressed, but like I said, it really seems, in layman's terms, to be a search engine tied to a specific data bank or set of data.
 
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http://www.aaai.org/Magazine/Watson/watson.php
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Shawn Fox
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remorseless1 wrote:
sfox wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI.

As has already been pointed out, everyone loves to keep moving the goalposts on what AI means. Calling Watson a search engine is like calling a modern automobile a wagon. There is a lot more going on than just matching search terms. You think they are using a room full of computers to just do a basic search through a lot of text to find matches? The CPU on an average smart phone provides plenty of power to do something that simplistic.

So it doesn't search millions of documents to come up with possible diagnoses and avenues of treatment?? Funny, I could have sworn that's what was said. Sure, you can fine tune the programming to be more detailed than identifying "key words," but still, it's a search. Show me Watson doing the diagnosis of an actual live human being after conducting an examination, and I'll be more impressed. Doesn't mean I'm not impressed, but like I said, it really seems, in layman's terms, to be a search engine tied to a specific data bank or set of data.

So how is human intelligence different than that?
 
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Mac Mcleod
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It's based on the soul... but for some reason the soul temporarily malfunctions when the physical brain is damaged.
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maxo-texas wrote:

Thanks, very interesting. Didn't change my characterization, but still, interesting.
 
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sfox wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
sfox wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI.

As has already been pointed out, everyone loves to keep moving the goalposts on what AI means. Calling Watson a search engine is like calling a modern automobile a wagon. There is a lot more going on than just matching search terms. You think they are using a room full of computers to just do a basic search through a lot of text to find matches? The CPU on an average smart phone provides plenty of power to do something that simplistic.

So it doesn't search millions of documents to come up with possible diagnoses and avenues of treatment?? Funny, I could have sworn that's what was said. Sure, you can fine tune the programming to be more detailed than identifying "key words," but still, it's a search. Show me Watson doing the diagnosis of an actual live human being after conducting an examination, and I'll be more impressed. Doesn't mean I'm not impressed, but like I said, it really seems, in layman's terms, to be a search engine tied to a specific data bank or set of data.

So how is human intelligence different than that?

Hmmm ... let's see. Human intelligence invented computers. Can AI invent human intelligence? Humans also invented music, literature, science, mathematics, philosophy, and the concept of emotional attachment (love) as well as the ability to reproduce outside of a manufacturing facility, feed an infant from their own body ... should I go on? What computer intelligence can do is invaluable -- process mathematical formulas at a far faster rate than the human brain, store immense amounts of data on a wide variety of subject, and process data on request.

Dude, we're going to have this argument every time you start trumpeting "AI will take over the world and solve all of our problems." This is like the "singularity" nonsense. If you actually think computers can do what human minds do only better, I believe you're going to be disappointed.
 
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Rebecca Carpenter
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When we have AI with machine learning cruising around in thier own mobile vessels (bodies), I wonder if aliens were to discover Earth if they would find much difference between AI and humans. We all need energy, are composed of star stuff, and our thoughts and actions controlled by our hard wiring. For humans it's brain chemicals/hormones/instincts, for AI programming. Sure to us there is a big difference, but to an outsider? Maybe not.

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Shawn Fox
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remorseless1 wrote:
sfox wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
sfox wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI.

As has already been pointed out, everyone loves to keep moving the goalposts on what AI means. Calling Watson a search engine is like calling a modern automobile a wagon. There is a lot more going on than just matching search terms. You think they are using a room full of computers to just do a basic search through a lot of text to find matches? The CPU on an average smart phone provides plenty of power to do something that simplistic.

So it doesn't search millions of documents to come up with possible diagnoses and avenues of treatment?? Funny, I could have sworn that's what was said. Sure, you can fine tune the programming to be more detailed than identifying "key words," but still, it's a search. Show me Watson doing the diagnosis of an actual live human being after conducting an examination, and I'll be more impressed. Doesn't mean I'm not impressed, but like I said, it really seems, in layman's terms, to be a search engine tied to a specific data bank or set of data.

So how is human intelligence different than that?

Hmmm ... let's see. Human intelligence invented computers. Can AI invent human intelligence? Humans also invented music, literature, science, mathematics, philosophy, and the concept of emotional attachment (love) as well as the ability to reproduce outside of a manufacturing facility, feed an infant from their own body ... should I go on? What computer intelligence can do is invaluable -- process mathematical formulas at a far faster rate than the human brain, store immense amounts of data on a wide variety of subject, and process data on request.

Dude, we're going to have this argument every time you start trumpeting "AI will take over the world and solve all of our problems." This is like the "singularity" nonsense. If you actually think computers can do what human minds do only better, I believe you're going to be disappointed.

Well I guess you know far more about how intelligence works than all of the scientists involved in AI do, so I'll have to concede the point to your superior intellect.
 
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David desJardins
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remorseless1 wrote:
Dude, we're going to have this argument every time you start trumpeting "AI will take over the world and solve all of our problems."


Well, it takes 2 to argue. We could avoid the argument if people stop replying to your nonsense.
 
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Pete Goch
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Artificial Intelligence can mean quite a few things. In a limited sense AI has been around for a long, long time. Any algorithm based decision making tool could be classed as an "artificial intelligence". Generally, these have been highly specialized tools, though.

I think what many look for as a qualification of a genuine artificial intelligence would be a general purpose tool than can respond to any problem in a creative or novel and potentially unexpected manner.
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David desJardins
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TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
I think what many look for as a qualification of a genuine artificial intelligence would be a general purpose tool than can respond to any problem in a creative or novel and potentially unexpected manner.


That is, however, only a small part of what artificial intelligence researchers themselves actually work on.

The field today is, more or less, about getting machines to do things that only intelligent beings (humans) could do before.
 
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Eddy Richards
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It's a shame that unartificial intelligence is so scarce.
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Robert Wesley
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shake It's 'shameful' how MUCH 'memory' they'll consume and for WHAT? Does this then produce a 'PB&J sandwich', or so, what else, then?
 
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Mac Mcleod
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remorseless1 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

Thanks, very interesting. Didn't change my characterization, but still, interesting.


Wasn't trying to change your characterization-- i thought it was interesting too. I was trying to see if it used neural networks which are more brainlike. But apparently it didn't then.
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Shawn Fox
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maxo-texas wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

Thanks, very interesting. Didn't change my characterization, but still, interesting.


Wasn't trying to change your characterization-- i thought it was interesting too. I was trying to see if it used neural networks which are more brainlike. But apparently it didn't then.

Watson does use neural networks as well as many other technologies. Different algorithms are good at different things, much like how the human brain is structured.
 
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sfox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

Thanks, very interesting. Didn't change my characterization, but still, interesting.


Wasn't trying to change your characterization-- i thought it was interesting too. I was trying to see if it used neural networks which are more brainlike. But apparently it didn't then.

Watson does use neural networks as well as many other technologies. Different algorithms are good at different things, much like how the human brain is structured.


This is an excellent book for getting a solid foundation of that idea in your head.

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Shawn Fox
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maxo-texas wrote:
sfox wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

Thanks, very interesting. Didn't change my characterization, but still, interesting.


Wasn't trying to change your characterization-- i thought it was interesting too. I was trying to see if it used neural networks which are more brainlike. But apparently it didn't then.

Watson does use neural networks as well as many other technologies. Different algorithms are good at different things, much like how the human brain is structured.


This is an excellent book for getting a solid foundation of that idea in your head.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1idlXjD7CkbIAv3Kk2-riy_Tk_8RiUE3mnlfU55KQUnslhyEa

The current state of AI is really just at the level of building all the pieces which will eventually come together to make the general AI. I thought it was interesting in the 60 minutes interview that one guy said they were still 30 years away from general AI. That timeframe is a bit further off than what I've seen other people say (Kurzweil for instance), but probably is more realistic.

Google has been working on the self driving car for quite a while now. They are making great progress, but I do often wonder how close it really is. In the programming world it is often that last 5% that takes 95% of the time. The self driving car isn't good enough unless it substantially surpasses the capabilities of human drivers, otherwise people aren't going to use it. That said, there is so much money to be made, and therefore, so much money being invested in the technology, that it really does seem like it is going to be ready in the next 5 years or so.
 
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David desJardins
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sfox wrote:
The current state of AI is really just at the level of building all the pieces which will eventually come together to make the general AI.


I don't think most AI researchers would say that. They don't really know what might be needed or useful to make a general AI. Maybe none of what they are building now will be useful, it's not so clear.

Quote:
The self driving car isn't good enough unless it substantially surpasses the capabilities of human drivers, otherwise people aren't going to use it.


Fortunately (?), human drivers are not very good, so potentially fairly easy to beat.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Dude, we're going to have this argument every time you start trumpeting "AI will take over the world and solve all of our problems."


Well, it takes 2 to argue. We could avoid the argument if people stop replying to your nonsense.

I guess my inability to kiss the ass of technology and worship it is "nonsense." I have no idea how old you are, but I've been around long enough to witness so many great ideas that didn't ever come to fruition -- as well as many that did come to fruition -- that I remain idiotically skeptical.
 
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David desJardins
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remorseless1 wrote:
I guess my inability to kiss the ass of technology and worship it is "nonsense." I have no idea how old you are, but I've been around long enough to witness so many great ideas that didn't ever come to fruition -- as well as many that did come to fruition -- that I remain idiotically skeptical.


No, the nonsense isn't skepticism about AI or technology---that's reasonable and even smart. The nonsense is stuff like, "It really appeared to me that Watson is more a combination of a search engine and a data bank than any kind of AI." That's just a misrepresentation or mischaracterization of what AI is. And it's like dismissing the potential of the human brain because it's just a collection of neurons.
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