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Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » Variants

Subject: Legacies promo card idea rss

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Kevin Wright
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I figured I ought to toss this out to everyone, just because it was a good idea, but I didn't know where to go with it.

A buddy of mine suggested a promo card for Legacy that actually incorporates both Legacy and Iron Legacy. Our idea was to do something where he flips (for lack of a better word) under certain circumstances -- that the Legacy side does powerfully good stuff, but the Iron Legacy side is a pain in the butt. We were thinking that on his turn, depending upon which version of the guy is "up," Legacy would play his deck, or Iron Legacy would play his own deck (like a bonus villain). The other option would be to think of Iron Legacy like an anti-hero and emphasize a more brutal power for him, but we were looking for a more dramatically different mechanic.

Anyway, the idea was embryonic, but intriguing. So I did the art for a card and thought I would toss it out to you smarter, more inventive people.

Enjoy...

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Rob Rob
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Sort of a split personality or even better, like the episode of Star Trek (TOS), bouncing between alternate universe versions of themselves.


 
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Kevin Wright
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Robrob wrote:
Sort of a split personality or even better, like the episode of Star Trek (TOS), bouncing between alternate universe versions of themselves.

Yep. Or even a take reminiscent of this episode of Star Trek (TOS)...


(Though, technically, we were thinking more of the flip-floppiness of Lazarus in this episode of Star Trek...)
 
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Kevin Wright
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Actually, those are three different sets of mechanics for similar "doppelganger" situations. I'm really glad that you brought Star Trek up, Robrob -- it's giving me ideas...
 
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Todd McCorkle
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I instantly thought of Ranma 1/2 (sorry no pics) where his boy form and girl form have different abilities.

Artwork wise, would it make sense to have Iron Legacy (IL) 'upside down' compared to regular Legacy (Legs). Include a separate HP and Power text (also upside down) so when he 'flips' you spin the card 180 degrees and get the other ability.

Are you attempting to make a variant character card that would use Legacies deck? Bounce between Legs and IL's different decks? or making some sort of custom deck? If custom, it could kind of be like the naturalist where cards do different things depending on which version of Legs was in play.

Hmmm, might be easier to go the skyscraper route and have 2 character cards that you switch between.

*random thoughts are random*
 
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Christopher Webb
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Probably better to go with the 2 different "form" cards.

What would be a name for this Legacy though? Time's Most Conflicted Legacy?
 
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Kevin Wright
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kusinohki wrote:
Artwork wise, would it make sense to have Iron Legacy (IL) 'upside down' compared to regular Legacy (Legs). Include a separate HP and Power text (also upside down) so when he 'flips' you spin the card 180 degrees and get the other ability.

Interesting -- I could get behind the "upside down" concept. Would you put the "Legacy" title in the center?

Oooooh, maybe someone could make an ambigram of the "Legacy" title...!

kusinohki wrote:
Are you attempting to make a variant character card that would use Legacies deck? Bounce between Legs and IL's different decks? or making some sort of custom deck? If custom, it could kind of be like the naturalist where cards do different things depending on which version of Legs was in play.

Yes, we were attempting to make a variant character card that would use Legacy's deck (and, possibly, Iron Legacy's deck). I'd rather not make an entirely new, custom deck -- though that does seem to have an elegance to the gameplay, given your connection to the Naturalist.

kusinohki wrote:
Hmmm, might be easier to go the skyscraper route and have 2 character cards that you switch between.

Naw -- that might be easiest, but where's the fun in that?
 
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Christopher Webb
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RevKev2000 wrote:
kusinohki wrote:
Artwork wise, would it make sense to have Iron Legacy (IL) 'upside down' compared to regular Legacy (Legs). Include a separate HP and Power text (also upside down) so when he 'flips' you spin the card 180 degrees and get the other ability.

Interesting -- I could get behind the "upside down" concept. Would you put the "Legacy" title in the center?

Oooooh, maybe someone could make an ambigram of the "Legacy" title...!

kusinohki wrote:
Are you attempting to make a variant character card that would use Legacies deck? Bounce between Legs and IL's different decks? or making some sort of custom deck? If custom, it could kind of be like the naturalist where cards do different things depending on which version of Legs was in play.

Yes, we were attempting to make a variant character card that would use Legacy's deck (and, possibly, Iron Legacy's deck). I'd rather not make an entirely new, custom deck -- though that does seem to have an elegance to the gameplay, given your connection to the Naturalist.

kusinohki wrote:
Hmmm, might be easier to go the skyscraper route and have 2 character cards that you switch between.

Naw -- that might be easiest, but where's the fun in that?


Well with Flipping the card upside down you'll have to have a setup card. In that setup card you could add a few things other than just turning the card like; If Legacy is "Ironside" and he would reduce damage or recover HP he instead deals one target that much melee damage. (a much more aggressive version of him)
 
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Kevin Wright
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Rosgath wrote:
Well with Flipping the card upside down you'll have to have a setup card. In that setup card you could add a few things other than just turning the card like; If Legacy is "Ironside" and he would reduce damage or recover HP he instead deals one target that much melee damage. (a much more aggressive version of him)

Hey, I like that -- a flipped version of the power text. So, for example, the "Legacy" side up might do {H} damage to 1 villain target, while the "Iron Legacy" side up might do 1 damage to all Hero targets...

Hmm... now to figure out what kind of power to "flip" for that...

Oh, and how's this for an ambigram? It's the first one that I've ever tried to make...
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Kevin Wright
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Okay, so here's a rough draft of the "flipped" version of the layout. I kinda like the simplicity of it -- if you use Legacy's potent power against a Villain, you get Iron Legacy... until you work up the nerve to make use of Iron Legacy's potent power against a hero to get Legacy back.

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Dennison Milenkaya
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I know it would be really weak for Legacy, but if he had 25 HP, it would also look neat being upside-down.

But seriously, do you wanna maybe make it "another hero target" so that "Iron" Legacy doesn't just hit himself? In a 4-player game with Inspiring Presence or a 5-player game, he can reduce that to 2 damage with Durability (or 1, with Fortitude). With the Legacy Ring and Next Evolution, he makes it a non-issue entirely. Either way, it doesn't seem very evil or tyrannical. Just ... sad.

You can (still) get some really neat self-synergy with Interception or by redirecting to self.

The card looks fantastic! But you should maybe say "spin to Corrupted/Conflicted Legacy" and not "Iron Legacy/Legacy". Also, the powers aren't labeled.
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Take Walker
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Seconding FlatOnHisFace's suggestions. Otherwise, there is nothing about this promo that isn't awesome.
 
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Dániel Lányi
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I think it would be simpler to have just one side and one power, but that power would do both good and bad.
Example:

The Worst Of Both Worlds
Legacy Deals one targat H+1 meelee damage. All hero characters deal themselves 1 irreducible psychic damage.


Or maybe you could make the negative part just a start of turn effect written above the innate power, so that Iron Legacy is always around, but then the trade-off is a stronger innate power.
 
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Christopher Webb
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wallwaster wrote:
I think it would be simpler to have just one side and one power, but that power would do both good and bad.
Example:

The Worst Of Both Worlds
Legacy Deals one targat H+1 meelee damage. All hero characters deal themselves 1 irreducible psychic damage.


Or maybe you could make the negative part just a start of turn effect written above the innate power, so that Iron Legacy is always around, but then the trade-off is a stronger innate power.


Simpler, but it lacks the fun and originality of the spin concept.
 
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P.D. Magnus
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FlatOnHisFace wrote:
But seriously, do you wanna maybe make it "another hero target" so that "Iron" Legacy doesn't just hit himself?


That would make spinning free when all the other heroes were incapacitated.
 
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P.D. Magnus
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Note that the power on one side says "Iron Legacy deals..." I get the theme, but as a rules point this is still the "Legacy" character card. So a literal reading of the rules should call it the same thing on both sides.
 
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Kevin Wright
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FlatOnHisFace wrote:
I know it would be really weak for Legacy, but if he had 25 HP, it would also look neat being upside-down.

I actually did think about that... but yes, it would make for a wimpy Legacy.

FlatOnHisFace wrote:
But seriously, do you wanna maybe make it "another hero target" so that "Iron" Legacy doesn't just hit himself? In a 4-player game with Inspiring Presence or a 5-player game, he can reduce that to 2 damage with Durability (or 1, with Fortitude). With the Legacy Ring and Next Evolution, he makes it a non-issue entirely. Either way, it doesn't seem very evil or tyrannical. Just ... sad.

pmagnus wrote:
Note that the power on one side says "Iron Legacy deals..." I get the theme, but as a rules point this is still the "Legacy" character card. So a literal reading of the rules should call it the same thing on both sides.

Excellent points. I'll change "Iron Legacy" simply to "Legacy" and add "another hero target" to his text. Or would it work even better to try something like "Legacy deals each hero target 1 melee damage," spreading the effect across everyone -- including himself -- and making it more likely that someone would chance the negative effect to spin the card back to Legacy?

FlatOnHisFace wrote:
You can (still) get some really neat self-synergy with Interception or by redirecting to self.

Now that I hadn't thought of. Kewl...

FlatOnHisFace wrote:
The card looks fantastic! But you should maybe say "spin to Corrupted/Conflicted Legacy" and not "Iron Legacy/Legacy". Also, the powers aren't labeled.

I know, but I was running out of space in the reduced-size text boxes. I could make the font smaller (which makes it harder to read), or I could make the boxes larger (which messes with the design). Lemme see what I can do...

 
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Todd McCorkle
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RevKev2000 wrote:


Wow. Just wow. I had a vague idea in my head when I suggested the whole upside down/spin thing. This blows it out of the water!

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
 
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Geoff B.
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A few thoughts.

1. I love the design and idea. Really cool.

2. (H) damage to a hero target is pretty rough. I'd suggest the powers aren't just hit a bad guy, hit a good guy, because 2 powers at +1 good damage isn't great.

Considering motivational charge gives you 2 damage and +1 health to each hero target this exchange isn't very good.

I'd ditch the (H), and have the bad legacy be more aggressive and reckless, more than turning on his friends.

something like:

power: Legacy deals each other target 1 melee damage, spin this card.

Could also go single target damage, and add a penalty.

Power: Legacy deals a target 4 melee damage, discard a card.

Or, maybe give him good reason to use his own tanking cards and abilities.

Power: Legacy deals 1 target and himself 4 melee damage.

Then on his front side, how about something he doesn't have yet:

Power: Put the bottom card of your deck into play.

You could add "one player may draw a card" to the forced play, and that would work well with a deal damage, discard a card power.


One thing to consider with these powers is that with the Legacy Ring you can use both powers in the same turn.
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Take Walker
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To muddy things further: what about incaps? I'd assume each would have their own set of powers (just two?), and whichever you get when he's incapacitated is what you're stuck with. Unless it's two actual powers and "spin this card".
 
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Isn't the whole point of Iron Legacy that he's applying his iron standards to everyone? I think the corrupted side should do something equally to every character or target, such as 1 damage to all targets. Then you don't just get 1 base power use followed by Motivational Charge all game long, and, you don't feel like you've just picked a bad version of Young Legacy.
 
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Kevin Wright
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greylag wrote:
Isn't the whole point of Iron Legacy that he's applying his iron standards to everyone? I think the corrupted side should do something equally to every character or target, such as 1 damage to all targets. Then you don't just get 1 base power use followed by Motivational Charge all game long, and, you don't feel like you've just picked a bad version of Young Legacy.

That brings up a good point -- what's the nature of the spin? I mean, we originally thought of it as if you don't want Iron Legacy, but you might want to use the Legacy side so badly at some point that you'd be willing to chance the bad crud that you get from the Iron Legacy side.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, you're thinking of the Iron Legacy side as an actually hero (albeit a reckless and dangerous hero) that you might potentially want to pick...

Hmm...
 
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RevKev2000 wrote:
greylag wrote:
Isn't the whole point of Iron Legacy that he's applying his iron standards to everyone? I think the corrupted side should do something equally to every character or target, such as 1 damage to all targets. Then you don't just get 1 base power use followed by Motivational Charge all game long, and, you don't feel like you've just picked a bad version of Young Legacy.

That brings up a good point -- what's the nature of the spin? I mean, we originally thought of it as if you don't want Iron Legacy, but you might want to use the Legacy side so badly at some point that you'd be willing to chance the bad crud that you get from the Iron Legacy side.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, you're thinking of the Iron Legacy side as an actually hero (albeit a reckless and dangerous hero) that you might potentially want to pick...

Hmm...

I'm thinking of it as the side of Legacy that eventually became Iron Legacy - the judgemental side, that was happy to work for the government, who fought in the military, who was prepared to go one-man-army vs. whoever he thought was wrong. This may not be your concept! But it's what jumps out at me with the idea of the spinny hero.
 
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Geoff B.
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I also see it more as an unstable Legacy, multiple sides of his personality showing up at different times, as he begins the descent into evil.
 
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Kevin Wright
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That's a lot more nuanced than we were thinking... and I love it. Okay, I'm voting that this is the final version, open for play-testing.

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