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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Treacherous Fog and the word "then" rss

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Dave, or "Phineas" or "Tolstoy" or,
United States
Mount Holly (Gastonia / Charlotte)
North Carolina
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I know there has been discussion of how long this Treacherous Fog lasts as far as its threat boost to locations. (Until the end of the phase, even if new locations show up.)

But, my brain is frozen on the word "then", as far as the next sentence.

Treacherous Fog wrote:
When Revealed: Each location in the staging area gets +1 threat until the end of the phase. Then, each player with a threat of 35 or higher chooses and discards 1 card from his hand.

The FAQ says this:
FAQ wrote:
(1.15) The word “then”
If a card effect uses the word “then,” then the preceding effect must resolve successfully for the subsequent dependent effect to resolve.

So the question my brain sticks on, is when exactly do the players discard their cards, if they are over 35 threat? Immediately after applying the threat bonus to locations (so before the next encounter card is revealed or before questing is resolved, in other words, before doing anything else), or, at the end of the phase? This could make a huge difference if the players' threats are hovering just below 35 at the beginning of questing, but might be over 35 at the end of resolving.
 
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Greg Burkett
United States
Warsaw
Indiana
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You would discard immediately after applying the threat bonus to the locations. When revealed effects resolve start to finish immediate, unless it says otherwise (such as "at the end of the round", etc).
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Ash Wooles
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Nottingham
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The resolve each treachery car in its entirety before revealing the next one. So each location would be +1 threat, and then you check players threat. After that you carry on either revealing cards or resolving questing.
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Chris Eckes
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Bloomington
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But what OP is saying is that the effect of the treachery lingers until the end of the phase - new locations revealed after Treacherous Fog has been resolved get the +1 boost, so it could be argued that it's first clause (prior to the 'Then' in the card text) has not been fully resolved.

I agree that the timing seems off, but my best guess would be to play the card as Ash describes above:

Step 1) Until the end of the phase, each location in the staging area gets +1 threat (including locations not yet revealed by the encounter deck but revealed subsequently)

Step 2) Immediately after applying Step 1, check threat, and each player with threat 35 or higher discards a card

Step 3) Because the lasting effect of Step 1 is still in effect, locations revealed after Step 2 is resolved still get the +1 threat boost
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Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
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Sentence 2 is not an ongoing effect though, so it would only fire then and there (or not).

Even trying to think about how to word that effect as ongoing makes my brain tremble.
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secoAce -
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Weltenreiter wrote:
Sentence 2 is not an ongoing effect though, so it would only fire then and there (or not).

Even trying to think about how to word that effect as ongoing makes my brain tremble.

That's why card text needs to be written accurately, precisely, and literally to avoid ambiguity and confusion.

If I were to read the Treacherous Fog literally, "Each location in the staging area gets +1 threat...", that "gets" is a single action verb performed when the card is written. Complete the placement of +1 Threat to the Locations, "then" perform the next action.

HOWEVER, according the official FAQ, we know that this first part is meant to be a lasting condition until the end of phase.

I would errata the card text as follows:

When Revealed:
* Each location in the staging area has an additional +1 threat until the end of the phase.
* Each player with a threat of 35 or higher chooses and discards 1 card from his hand.


The "has an additional +1 Threat..." text is necessary because otherwise it could be interpreted to mean that there can be +1 and only +1 Threat on the card. But it needs to take into account there could be other affects that also alters the Threat on the Locations in the Staging area.
 
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