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Conan» Forums » General

Subject: Wonderful components, but suggested heroes, items and spells ? rss

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Ian Gill
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Thrilled with the KS contents, and I understand the rules are being reworked, but is this going to include guidelines on using all the components.

My biggest disappointment is seeing "suggested heroes, items and spells" in a scenario, having other heroes, decks of extra items and spells, and having no idea how they can be incorporated.

Is this being addressed in the revised rules as I appreciate there will be different levels of content (retail, barbarian and King) ?
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Brian Sherry
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Suggested means that that mix of heroes will have a good chance of winning the scenario based on playtesting. You can use any heroes you want. No one is coming to your house to stop you. But certain combinations may make the missions harder or easier. Relax and play with your toys as you like.
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seb seb2
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The scenarios have been playtested with a specific configuration of heroes/spells.
i don't think you can swap things,for obvious balance issues.

But there will be scenarios that use the other stuffs.
 
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Ian Gill
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Black Knight wrote:
Suggested means that that mix of heroes will have a good chance of winning the scenario based on playtesting. You can use any heroes you want. No one is coming to your house to stop you. But certain combinations may make the missions harder or easier. Relax and play with your toys as you like.


You can play any game you own in any way you like. I could play a hex counter wargame and decide to give one side extra units. Not sure that is what I really expect to be doing without game defined limits.

With Myth it is almost required to balance the game yourself.

However, in games like Conan, that are supposed to be true to the spirit of the books etc I was hoping that when heros for a scenario are only "suggested", there would be some idea of how many spells a different character should have (otherwise you could pick the whole spell deck !) and which spells are appropriate to a character, etc.
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Ian Gill
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Belsamoreth wrote:
The scenarios have been playtested with a specific configuration of heroes/spells.
i don't think you can swap things,for obvious balance issues.

But there will be scenarios that use the other stuffs.


Totally agree that a scenario is probably designed for specific heroes and items.
That would be fine except that the designer/team have clearly implied you can swop the characters etc but without providing any information or guidelines based upon their design process.

What I mean is - I assume they will have used various spell/item settings during the development process and discovered balanced set-ups, Eg giving a player 5 different spells gives too much choice, etc
None of this is currently in the rulebook
 
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Jon Bowker
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Are you looking for every permutation of each scenario using different heroes and what starting gear each should have for each combination? That's nearly impossible to create, let alone balance.

The game comes with 4 heroes, those are the only ones that should be discussed in the main rule book. Telling people what is "suggested" implies there could be more available in the future or that you could play with fewer/more to increase/decrease the difficulty. Adding information about heroes that aren't in the box would be confusing to retail owners that will think they are missing components. Monolith got us this far, albeit slowly, but give them some time to develop the extras.
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Ian Gill
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No, but in adding extra characters from the Conan stories I assume the team have added appropriate equipment and spells to the decks.
I would hope this info might be provided in some form as it is probably 30 years since I read the Conan stories and I can't recall all the references etc (and don't really want to revist them all)

I already pointed out that I appreciate that there are different component levels (retail, etc).
All I highlighted was my own disappointment in that "suggested heroes" is used at all in the base rules without any current guidelines being provided and was asking if this might appear in the revised ruleset.

I'm fine if such info is provided separately. The Monolith team have no doubt gained a lot of insight into what works and what breaks scenarios, and what is thematic to each character. All I would hope to see is some of that knowledge being shared rather than players blindly picking hero, item, and spell combinations in the hope of a reasonably balanced experience.
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Max Maloney
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Posco wrote:
Thrilled with the KS contents, and I understand the rules are being reworked, but is this going to include guidelines on using all the components.

My biggest disappointment is seeing "suggested heroes, items and spells" in a scenario, having other heroes, decks of extra items and spells, and having no idea how they can be incorporated.

Is this being addressed in the revised rules as I appreciate there will be different levels of content (retail, barbarian and King) ?

This is a good point to bring up. I do agree with the one reply that they can't realistically reference non-core components in the core game scenarios, but it would have been nice if the KS extras box had some guidelines.

I assume swapping any heroes one for one should be a pretty basic level of experimentation and shouldn't require any designer suggestions. You may find some heroes are better or worse for a given scenario, but let's assume that's within the range of acceptable variance.

What I would look for more guidance on is starting equipment. I don't know if this needs to be scenario specific. I would envision some guidelines on what each hero can start with in a general case (e.g., hero #7 should start with a sword or two daggers) and then some notes on scenario-specific demands (e.g., in scenario #2, make sure someone has a torch).

I would be fine to improvise from there.
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J P
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I think most people are looking more for general strategies and approaches to determine which heroes would work well in a given scenario more so than a specific line by line listing of every good arrangement.

For myself, having never played yet, I plan to just look at the different hero sheets and compare the stats to the "recommended" heroes and choose the ones that are the most similar in stats and abilities.

I also plan to try that one scenario that's one-on-one (Wrath of Anu) with Yogah of Yag vs. the Overlord.
 
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Ian Gill
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I think it is the spells, more than the equipment, that I would most like guidance on.

For most games I will just use the selected heroes for the first game but with so many extras included will want to experiment with options.
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Richard Neale
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I think the OP has a really good point. Too much is left to the players to riddle out for themselves. Maybe some guidance regarding equipment etc. as well as scenario building advice would be a good idea.

Balancing is always a sticky issue, and I think sticking to the core box contents would be wise, but given the amount of time and money that was invested in this game, this really feels like an oversight and a missed opportunity.
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Brian Franzman
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Personally, I'm hoping they lay out this kind of information in the campaign book and then make it available online.
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Angelus Seniores
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anything extra will likely have seen less playtesting than whats in the core box.
some guidance might indeed have been nice to have.
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Lionel
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Monolith said that there would be more official and fan-made scenarios on their website soon after the game is released. They also said that every SG and add-on mini would have one.
So every component will be at least used once (and more if you replay the scenario as the Overlord or another character).

Also, it is very well possible to swap heroes for the KS ones. For instance, I think it's fair to swap Shevatas for Taurus (both thieves), or Pelias for Hadratus (both magicians). But as said before, scenarios are balanced for the suggested heroes. Change is at your own risk. The most important part is the skills. If one scenario requires heroes to jump and leap, don't expect to pick another hero who can't do it.

I haven't receive my copy yet, but I intend to play the 8 base scenarios first, then the SG box ones (4 I think), and THEN (it will take several weeks), look on the website for the bonus ones.

And since this website will be open for everybody, as the game gets older, more scenarios will be available. No worries there, I trust the community.
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Lionel
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As for suggested items for your own fan-made scenario, I don't think there will be aids. Just play-test your idea several times and make the adjustments necessary.

I think your should start with the minions (they all have different stats) and the maps : a save-the-princess/villagers type story, a ship battle, a tavern brawl, a sorcerer who has X turns to cast a spell on the heroes or summon a beast, a monster in the swamps, a warlord attacking King Conan in his castle, etc...
Then pick a leader and monster(s) who fit your idea.

Then choose your heroes accordingly. Do you want a muscle team with Conan and 3 others "strong" heroes ? Or a rogue one with Conan, the 2 thieves and one archer ? A diverse and balanced team ? Each character have special skills that will be crucial to win the game.
As for equipment, just test it. Start with some basic one, and put stronger weapons, armors and potions in the treasure chests.

Then test it many times and see which way your scenario needs to be balanced.
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Lionel
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Finally, for me, the best part of this game is the variety of goals. In games like Descent or Zombicide, most of the missions are "kill the bad guy, and go from point A to point B".

With Conan, all the maps and the special rules give you opportunities. You can defend the castle. You can attack the castle. You can go in an haunted fortress with skeletons and find the treasure. You can kill the sorcerer before he revives too many mummies. You can attack a pirate ship to protect the land, or just BE a pirate and loot another ship. The possibilities are pretty cool, and each scenario can have special rules, dices, events and time limits to make your idea more fun and feel more like a story, and not just a hack and slash, or classic RPG "kill the baddies and get the loot".

In some of the base scenarios, it is the Overlord who must accomplish objectives, and the heroes just have to stop him by killing the leader. In others, the heroes have several objectives, and the OL is the one who has to stop them. And with the stretch goals comes some OL tiles for the heroes, and character sheets for the leaders and monsters. There are plenty of ideas to find and explore.
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k c
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I wish the characters/cards had point values. Then the setup could just say build an x point team of heroes, overlord builds a y point army.
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Lilith Baerchen
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kdc629 wrote:
I wish the characters/cards had point values. Then the setup could just say build an x point team of heroes, overlord builds a y point army.


Thought about this, too. But the problem is, that on specific maps some skills are more usefull then others and so some characters should cost "more points" then other characters...

Same goes for specific goals in the scenarios...


-> Conan is much harder to balance then Hero Quest or Zombicide were players "always" win and the overlord "always" loses.

Still I would have prefered a info with "standard equipment" or "those heros might also work in this scenario"-Information for us Kickstarter-Guys


Now my hope lies in the hands of the community developing cool scenarios or balanced hero-swapping-modes for the existing ones
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kdc629 wrote:
I wish the characters/cards had point values. Then the setup could just say build an x point team of heroes, overlord builds a y point army.
This would be my solution, indicating the power level of items and spells (and maybe even characters) with a point system works well with other games. Then they could just take the point values for scenarios they've playtested and and limit you to those points.
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Some of the fun of figuring out who would be good in a certain mission should be on the players though,I don't want the company to do all the work for me. A point system would give you some parameters to work with, then you should be able look at a mission and see how valuable a trait swimming is going to be. If you think that you need somebody who can swim, pick someone who can swim; that would be the fun of preparing for the mission.
 
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Kevin Hann
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My problem is that my time is limited so I shouldn't have to experiment to determine which heroes can replace the suggested heroes for each scenario. However this appears to really only be a problem with us kickstarter backers who will have all these extra heroes with limited use. So for my group it sounds like we won't be using all the extra heroes much until maybe the campaign book arrives next year? I do hope the campaign book puts all the kickstarter stretch goals to good use. If not it sounds all the extras will be a waste for a guy like me.
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Itai Perez
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Hannman wrote:
My problem is that my time is limited so I shouldn't have to experiment to determine which heroes can replace the suggested heroes for each scenario. However this appears to really only be a problem with us kickstarter backers who will have all these extra heroes with limited use. So for my group it sounds like we won't be using all the extra heroes much until maybe the campaign book arrives next year? I do hope the campaign book puts all the kickstarter stretch goals to good use. If not it sounds all the extras will be a waste for a guy like me.


Not necessarily. Other players with more time will be able to share the scenarios they designed on Conan website, and you'll be able to benefit from them.
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Richard Neale
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I appreciate some of the suggestions here, but too many of these are reliant on 'suck it and see' and letting your customer base doing the work for you.

This information must have been available to the game designers for them to have designed the scenarios they have already developed (as well as those being developed by others for the upcoming expansions and Modiphius accessories).

How unrealistic is it for the community, which is apparently being expected to grow this game for the pubishers, to expect some guidelines on how to do so?

My own interest in this stems from the fact that, despite purporting to be a game for 2-5, none of the core scenarios require less than 3 players (1 OL and 2 Heroes). I had hoped to build linked scenarios as well as those for occasions when not all my group are available to play.

I appreciate all the variety, but without the context to utilise it all, it doesn't really amount to much. I also pray to Crom that the idea that components outside the core box receiving less play testing to ensure their balance with the overall game is nothing more than an opinion of the poster -because that's ludicrous if not!

I think a point system would have been a wise move, if only to provide some sense of scale, though I also appreciate that this might have dragged this closer to a traditional wargame mechanic.

I don't think anyone is expecting every permutation either, but something is better than nothing. I wouldn't even mind if this info was included in one of the expansions/add ons to guarantee sales outside the core box, but to have nothing?
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J P
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Ackiatta wrote:


My own interest in this stems from the fact that, despite purporting to be a game for 2-5, none of the core scenarios require less than 3 players (1 OL and 2 Heroes). I had hoped to build linked scenarios as well as those for occasions when not all my group are available to play.



FWIW, the Wrath of Anu scenario is 2 players.
 
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Richard Neale
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DancingFool wrote:
Ackiatta wrote:


My own interest in this stems from the fact that, despite purporting to be a game for 2-5, none of the core scenarios require less than 3 players (1 OL and 2 Heroes). I had hoped to build linked scenarios as well as those for occasions when not all my group are available to play.



FWIW, the Wrath of Anu scenario is 2 players.


Thanks, this was the one I was referring to (I couldn't remember the name). 2 Players yes, but you still need an OL. I'll have to rustle me up some more friends cry
 
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