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LOAD: League of Ancient Defenders» Forums » General

Subject: Backers of LOAD might want to be aware of this ..... rss

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Biggus Doggus
United Kingdom
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Here is the text of the last update(s) sent to AvP backers - it was first sent on 2nd October, and then again yesterday.

Quote:
Please bear in mind, non of the changed will affect Kickstarters delivery.
1. There is a changed in Prodos Games LTD management structure.
2. New management’s priority is to finish AvP Kickstarter delivery asap, and the route-map is created in order to finish it off:
a) new stuff is being employed to increase capacity for manufacturing and customer service in order to improve communication with backers and shipping.
b) new management decision was to cancel many external casting work to increase capacity to finish AvP Kickstarter, as you may know, every item approved post March 16 needed to be manufactured for you.
c) nothing will be release to retail until the last backer receive their pledges.
d) slow shipping in last 2 months was caused by :
-holiday period and sick absence
- low capacity (too much work taken on by Prodos – issue addressed)
- issues with pledge manager – Prodos team needed to go through each individual pledge, and confirm it with shipping goods as Prodos have received feedback about double-shipping the same pledge to several backers. (addressed by Prodos)
- we had yearly VAT check and need to take a stocktake, that effectively cut out two weeks from our manufacturing/packing capacity.
3. Prodos is looking into tokens issue. This can only be addressed post Kickstarter.
4. 3D terrain is in external supplier 3D print and will be with us within weeks, it will be revealed and send to backers as soon as we start manufacturing it (3-4 weeks at max).
5. Wargaming book, the work on layout for the book is started this week Monday, the book should be manufactured within 60 days, you will be able to see a preview PDF weeks before it goes to print.
IF you are interested how the Wargame will play have a look at this Warzone 2.0 wargaming rules :
http://warzone.prodosgames.com/…/files/files/Warzone_2_0.pdf
6. Remaining items – Clear Predators, Marines tokens and multi parts models are in manufacturing and the stock in build up for shipping.
7. PLEASE check your pledge manger for address and same and SURNAME for shipping!
Other issues not related with Kickstarter that won’t affect you at all, are:
- post Brexit (customs issues that may affect EU and USA customers post Brexit, it wont affect backers at all, however its a valid point as it will affect many current UK based Kickstarters if not delivered within a year or so)
- Prodos HQ relocation to USA
- moving from GBP as main currency to USD due to unstabil position of GBP post Brexi to Euro and USD.



How does that affect you LOAD backers? Well it might not of course, but it is clear from the above that Prodos Games Ltd has been (or is in the process of being) sold to a US based concern. It would be pointless buying Prodos as a brandname unless you were buying the technology behind their casting processes - ie Unicast and Procast, otherwise you'd be unable to make the figures for the games (WZR, AvP, Space Crusade) that would come with it. Word on the ground is that Jarek is getting out of the business altogether, and that would suggest that Archon (and LOAD) may also be part of that deal. Archon did claim during the KS that they own Unicast - a claim that had already been made by Prodos. I'm sure I don't need to re-outline the links between the two companies.

So your game may be just about to go through a change of ownership just as KS fulfilment fast approaches. Hopefully it will turn out for the best for all of us. In the meantime, you should probably be asking Archon questions regarding their future.
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Archon Studio
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Thanks for your concerns but this has nothing to do with Archon.

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Jake Rose
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Archon Studio wrote:
Thanks for your concerns but this has nothing to do with Archon.



Want to explain WHY?

Clearly Archon,at the time of this KS, was owned by family members of the Prodos team, and shared the dishonesty Jarek is known for.

What has changed?
 
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Stuart Holttum
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It only takes a quick look around BGG to see how interconnected the two companies are - indeed that "Archon Studio" may well either be Jarek himself, or at best someone intimately acquainted with him.

Example:
Archon Studio wrote:
rvrratt wrote:
Quote from Jarek:
" BBG by allowing such actions that also affect our business in general, in fact Archon and Prodos - on this matter we will be searching legal advice as well......

.....
a) Legal advice - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_advice
b) Legal action - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/legal+action

As quoted : it was used a legal advice not legal actions on this mater.


Clearly "Archon Studio" knew exactly what Jarek had done, and why. This is reinforced by the next quote....
Archon Studio wrote:

Prodos is an investor in Archon's structure.

I am an employee of Archon but NOT A DIRECTOR, I am Prodos director but not-paid or employed.

...which also makes clear why there are concerns about the sale of Prodos - if Prodos is indeed "an investor in Archons structure", then new management may well want to recover their investment - which could leave Archon suddenly scrabbling for funds. What if Prodos decided to dump all their shares?

Archon Studio wrote:

Both companies are linked in shares, however financial they are separate entity. Prodos owns majority of shares in Archon.....


And that line should spark severe concern. If Prodos owns the majority of Archon, then Archon is (at best) heavily dependent on Prodos - and the new management at Prodos may have very different ideas as to how their controlling interest should be used.


So - and this is SOLELY by reading what Archon Studio themselves have posted on this one site - there are HUGE red flags on the management changes at Prodos. It is extremely disingenuous to now simply say "this has nothing to do with Prodos" when your own words give the lie to that statement.
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Archon Studio
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Hi there, thanks again for commenting, however as stated above this has nothing to do with Archon.

Archon's management, financial operations and contracts Archon is working on stays unchanged, thus, as stated above, any changes in the management of the other independent company will not affect the way Archon is operating. Thanks for your deep concerns.

I would like also add that Load Kickstarter is on track to be delivered faster than time given on Kickstarter, as per our updates, and we hope to see you on our next projects once LOAD is complete. thanks
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Stuart Holttum
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Archon Studio wrote:
?....any changes in the management of the other independent company will not affect the way Archon is operating.


So Prodos is a majority stakeholder in Archon....but has no say in the running of the company? Can you explain how you can own most of something, but not have any influence over it?

Definition of majority shareholder:
"Majority shareholder is a shareholder who owns and controls most of a corporation’s stock. Generally, a majority shareholder has more power than all of the other shareholders combined. S/he also has the authority to do things that other shareholders do not have, such as replacing a corporation’s officers or board of directors.." (My bold)

It's all very well for you to say "not an issue", but unless you can answer that question it will remain a very valid concern.
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Claude nameless
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As usual people is talking about something that doesn't know.
Prodos is moving hq and PART of his manufacture capability to US. Archon will remain in Poland. New Investor already said they will work to strenghten Prodos IP and games. All Panic we read and spreads is simply nonsense.
Moreover in Essen Prodos and Archon are showing their game - along with Load: yes you can come and see miniatures and other componens. Moreover Archon is working on a new project: Vanguard of War.

Edit: typos
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Stuart Holttum
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ilgianni wrote:
Archon will remain in Poland. New Investor already said they will work to strenghten Prodos IP and games.


Well, you tell me where I've got it wrong.

ARCHON say that Prodos and Archon are entirely separate companies. Ok - but then whoever now owns Prodos has no responsibility to Archon.

....or are you saying Archon have lied on this site, in the quotes I used?

It would be useful if you could post a list as to exactly who the shareholders currently are in the two companies, because without that specific information, you are speculating just as much as we are.

Both companies have lied and covered up in the past. So please excuse me if I don't accept a bland "everything is fine" from them without pushing.
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Claude nameless
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I was not referring specifically to your post.
A friends of mine is a Prodos' employee - sort of - we talked about Prodos' situation.
As you can imagine I cannot say more about that.
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Jake Rose
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ilgianni wrote:
I was not referring specifically to your post.
A friends of mine is a Prodos' employee - sort of - we talked about Prodos' situation.
As you can imagine I cannot say more about that.


Which makes your posts useless. Based on Jarek's and other team members being dishonest, some of us take their announcements as lies until they prove otherwise. They've earned that, repeatedly. You shilling for them yet not being able to give any actual info doesn't help.
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daman whodaman
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jakecarol wrote:
ilgianni wrote:
I was not referring specifically to your post.
A friends of mine is a Prodos' employee - sort of - we talked about Prodos' situation.
As you can imagine I cannot say more about that.


Which makes your posts useless. Based on Jarek's and other team members being dishonest, some of us take their announcements as lies until they prove otherwise. They've earned that, repeatedly. You shilling for them yet not being able to give any actual info doesn't help.


WHATEVER!! worth waiting 2 months to see if all is true.. get it at my door all smiles and dont give two shiits + they got me as a client on the next KS.. If i dont then its chargeback without hassle + banned.. simple as that!

Right now; I dont care for all the drama BS if i get my product. So i've heard enough and F-OFF!!
 
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Claude nameless
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jakecarol wrote:
ilgianni wrote:
I was not referring specifically to your post.
A friends of mine is a Prodos' employee - sort of - we talked about Prodos' situation.
As you can imagine I cannot say more about that.


Which makes your posts useless. Based on Jarek's and other team members being dishonest, some of us take their announcements as lies until they prove otherwise. They've earned that, repeatedly. You shilling for them yet not being able to give any actual info doesn't help.


Yeah, on the opposite your venomous posts are really useful aren't they?

We will see in the next 2 months what will happen and who is right. I have nothing else to say honestly - farewell.
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Brett MacDonald
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As is often the case the truth is clearly in the middle and we don't need to argue back and forth about it. Yes Prodos/Archon have lost the trust of many clients and deserve some reasonable questioning. And yes a change of ownership/majority shareholder is an important and potentially impactful thing. So there is legitimate cause for concern. Second hand assurances are not enough to rectify those concerns. They need to come from Archon.

The flip side is Archon/Prodos has been adamant Archon is its own entity and so far the signs are showing that to be true (despite the ownership clearly being linked and/or the same). LOAD is progressing at a great pace, looks great, and does not appear to be following old trends of Prodos. They truly might be turning over a new leaf with the new branding. Further Archon has stated this change at Prodos does not impact them.

What this situation really needs is just a stronger more open statement from Archon. Specifically one that acknowledges the majority share holder of their company might be changing but that the new party is not changing anything in Archon so LOAD is proceeding as originally planned. That is it really. It also likely would have been best if the AvP update did not happen until all parties where ready to announce it as we don't even know who the new owners are yet. I imagine some form of press release is incoming on that once finalized and this update would have likely gone smoother after that.

Their first statement in this thread was bad. It was clearly false as Stuart pointed out. Their second statement is much better and closer to what is needed. It just still reads as the new investor does not effect them. It clearly could.... keyword being could... not will... but I also find it easy to believe the new investor is not rocking the boat at Archon at all (despite the AvP update) and is mainly effecting Prodos to try and repair the bad situation they have decided to take on.
 
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Freelance Police
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Well, on the Dakka forums, members are posting that their copies of AvP have arrived. But where is this money coming from? Only a few months ago, Prodos said it didn't have the funds to ship product, and would ship to backers who bought additional product from Prodos. Prodos *does* cast for multiple clients, but AvP funds were used to ship Warzone rewards, and I've yet to find a KS creator whose changed his behavior.

I don't think backers will ever know what in the world is going on, but, thankfully, there's always retail.

 
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Ken Lewis
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Sam and Max wrote:
Well, on the Dakka forums, members are posting that their copies of AvP have arrived. But where is this money coming from? Only a few months ago, Prodos said it didn't have the funds to ship product, and would ship to backers who bought additional product from Prodos. Prodos *does* cast for multiple clients, but AvP funds were used to ship Warzone rewards, and I've yet to find a KS creator whose changed his behavior.

I don't think backers will ever know what in the world is going on, but, thankfully, there's always retail.



I just noticed that someone on Dakka, who just received their copy of AVP, said it was sent by Archon and not by Prodos.

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Andrew Park
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Still waiting on any of my AvP KS pledge to show up, so if they're using any of the LOAD monies on AvP fulfillment it obviously isn't enough! ;-)

Anyway, pretty sure they're going to be prompt on LOAD fulfillment - with the poop-storm that happened during the KS campaign they're well aware that this is make-or-break reputation-wise.

Archon Studio wrote:
Thanks for your concerns but this has nothing to do with Archon.


Giant_Monster wrote:

I just noticed that someone on Dakka, who just received their copy of AVP, said it was sent by Archon and not by Prodos.


Hmmmmmmmm XD
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Carlos D
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Received my copy of LOAD in Taiwan. The game is lots of fun and the miniatures are mind-blowing!
I think that Unicast is a great technology and I look forward to knowing about (and backing) future projects using it.

All in all, I am one happy backer
 
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mariana crispim
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Got my game today.

I think it was my first KS boardgame (of many), that came even before the scheduled time.

They did a great job on their updates (information policy).
Components looks awesome. Gameplay I could not test so far.

Really dont understand all the haters here, wake up guys, this is pathetic that you do. And Yes, I was also a AVP backer (and had tons of problems). But this is not AVP.
 
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Will Baker
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mari2k wrote:
Got my game today.

I think it was my first KS boardgame (of many), that came even before the scheduled time.

They did a great job on their updates (information policy).
Components looks awesome. Gameplay I could not test so far.

Really dont understand all the haters here, wake up guys, this is pathetic that you do. And Yes, I was also a AVP backer (and had tons of problems). But this is not AVP.


Maybe you ought to look at the gameplay threads before you open your mouth. Way to go!
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Jake Rose
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mari2k wrote:


Really dont understand all the haters here, wake up guys, this is pathetic that you do. And Yes, I was also a AVP backer (and had tons of problems). But this is not AVP.


So you admit you had troubles with Jarek and crew and chose to back them for this. Great, glad it worked out for you.

Having said that, Jarek and crew still owe some of quite a bit. To chastise us for not being happy to get fucked over and not being supportive of the crap bag fucking us is, frankly, disgusting.
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Brett MacDonald
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mari2k wrote:
Really dont understand all the haters here, wake up guys, this is pathetic that you do. And Yes, I was also a AVP backer (and had tons of problems). But this is not AVP.


Blatant plagiarism and hiding your identity to avoid attention tend to have bad impacts on how clients perceive your company. Those had nothing to do with AvP. Just saying...

I am glad it worked out well for backers though. Just don't pretend the skepticism was unwarranted.

Edit: also noticed you rated the game a 10 with the same comment. Giving a game a ten when you haven't played it and early reports for gameplay are meh? Seems odd... I have no issue if this game actually is a ten for you... but not sure how it can be before you even played it.
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