$18.00
GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters: 112.07

6,889 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
43.4% of Goal | left

Support:

Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
27 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Innovation» Forums » General

Subject: My gf hates this :( rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Igor Persin
msg tools
So we played it 2 times now, I for one like it very much, on the other hand my gf hates it, and game stresses her a lot. FIrst game we didn't finish(or maybe did), and my gf won, she stole a lot of cards from my score pile, first those low ones with one card, then 4's with pirating.

2nd game I won, actually we didn't finish, she said she had it enough, I was leading, but in both cases we didn't go past age 5 I think.

Now I know that we don't have enough experiance to rate it yet, but after 2 plays she firmly believes, half of the cards are useless, it's totaly luck based, if you get score cards and those that let you steal enemy score cards, you simply win, and other guy has no chance....

So can you give me advices how to try to persuade her, and examples that game is not totaly luck based, and guy who gets steal/score cards will win?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Olsen
Denmark
Ringsted
Danmark
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

I am not sure how much this helps, but.... I often win against my wife by skipping ages, racing to age 9/10, and play some of the "crazy" cards in those ages. In fact, I generally ignore the score cards until later in the game, and instead focus on (as said) getting to as high an age as possible, as fast as possible.

And that is just one route. There are many many ways to win this game, hopefully someone with more experience than me will jump in and explain : - )

But yes, there *is* luck involved. You can turn the game around with some lucky draws. But then again, luck is involved in most games.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ejnro F
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
smurfORnot wrote:

So can you give me advices how to try to persuade her, and examples that game is not totaly luck based, and guy who gets steal/score cards will win?


Play something she likes instead. Find someone else that will play this with you.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michele Testoni
Italy
Bologna
flag msg tools
You absolutely need to play more games to understand that luck is not a main factor in this game. Believe me, the number of weak cards is very low, and going on you'll find that there are lot of different strategies and various ways to win a game. The more you play, the more you learn new roads to victory.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Persin
msg tools
I know. Problem is to get her to play more of it to understand it better. She loves Race for the galaxy for example.

Option to play this with someone else is not an option, I only play with her board games, and this is her game to begin with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Armand
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Like Michael, I generally focus on levels. I also will prioritize splaying above scoring. I will try to work in special achievements where I can, but tend to ignore early standard achievements and come from behind when I have a solid engine and suit-leads from splaying.

This game is built for improbable comebacks. Don't worry about falling behind or having an empty score pile. It's more important to get free actions through sharing and play defense than to crank out a couple early pts through agriculture and then be at your opponent's mercy when you stall short of six.

Imho it's a much better game than RftG, and much, much less luck dependent.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
flag msg tools
Nothing happens for a reason, but everything happens by a mechanism
badge
God is a cruel croupier, he dealeth and he taketh away
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a love-it-or-hate-it game. Personally, I'm not so sure it's wise to try to convince other people that they should like a particular game, especially when there is a huge universe of other games that both of you might enjoy equally.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Armand
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
JoshBot wrote:
It's a love-it-or-hate-it game. Personally, I'm not so sure it's wise to try to convince other people that they should like a particular game, especially when there is a huge universe of other games that both of you might enjoy equally.


I would agree with you if her assessment of the game were accurate. It isn't. Scoring/stealing cards are not OP.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Drog
United States
Ponte Vedra Beach
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Let her win.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Lim
Philippines
Iloilo
Oton
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
try going to innovation.isotropic.org

much faster to set up and maybe she will like it better..
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oskar Arnason
Iceland
Reykjavík
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
My wife likes Innovation, but hates Mottainai. My advice is just give it time. The mechanics, hecticness or screwage might be too much for her tastes, but she might get around to it.

Then again it just might not be her game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Murr Rockstroh
United States
Fleming Island
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Show her the nuke the world card... my wife loves getting that one and resetting the entire game
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Yours Truly,
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
mbmbmbmbmb
doctoryes0 wrote:
JoshBot wrote:
It's a love-it-or-hate-it game. Personally, I'm not so sure it's wise to try to convince other people that they should like a particular game, especially when there is a huge universe of other games that both of you might enjoy equally.


I would agree with you if her assessment of the game were accurate. It isn't. Scoring/stealing cards are not OP.


But Innovation is still a much more confrontational game than RFTG, a game his girlfriend does like.

I'd just accept the fact that some games she likes, and some games she doesn't - play the ones she likes, don't force her to play games she doesn't. Even if it IS her game - it's OK if a game someone buys turns out not to be for them cool It's all supposed to be for fun, right?

My wife also loves RFTG. Other non-confrontational games she really likes, that you could consider for you and your GF:
-Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small
-Hawaii
-Pandemic Legacy: Season 1
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justus
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
It might be a matter of time, or it might be in the game itself. My wife likes Glory to Rome but not Innovation.

But I would say you should try to play with your GF until she sees the underlying mechanics and realizes its a highly random and a highly skill dependent game. I didn't realize it myself till the third or fourth play....at that point if she still don't like it then move on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gillum the Stoor
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
A few Chudyk games have been mentioned here, but they're obviously not all the same.

Glory to Rome, Uchronia, and Mottainai are very close. Impulse shares some elements of those two, but it adds the spatial element of the map of cards being explored.

While Innovation is another card game in which the card that you play affects (and may benefit) other players, it isn't as close to the others in its mechanics (in my opinion).

Red7 and Bear Valley, while still card games, are quite different.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ejnro wrote:
smurfORnot wrote:

So can you give me advices how to try to persuade her, and examples that game is not totaly luck based, and guy who gets steal/score cards will win?


Play something she likes instead. Find someone else that will play this with you.
As painful as this is, this would be my response.

Furthermore, you may have to accept that you may never be able to play this game again as I don't know your situation, and it may be possible that you may not have any other groups, or other groups who will want to play this.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Armand
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
All I'm saying is let her know that she's mistaken - that people who have played the game dozens of times say that scoring/stealing cards are emphatically not the only path to victory, and that they can be shut down utterly by an effective splay and suit majority.

If she doesn't want to play again knowing that there is much, much more to the game, then of course, that's the end of the story.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Kaplounenko
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
doctoryes0 wrote:

Imho it's a much better game than RftG, and much, much less luck dependent.


I must be playing entirely different versions of those games.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chearns
Canada
Montréal
Québec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
smurfORnot wrote:
So can you give me advices how to try to persuade her, and examples that game is not totaly luck based, and guy who gets steal/score cards will win?

Have her play on isotropic against some of the good players. After getting defeated soundly and convincingly five times or more in a row, one comes to realise that this is a skill game.

That being said, I often call this a game of who's got the hammer? If the other player has a hammer, then your goal is to dig as much as possible to find a better one before they win. And then it switches and they need to dig. Along with that there is a necessity to get icons on your board (which also requires digging, but this time for cards that allow you to splay).

That being said, there are lots of games out there, if she doesn't like this one, play something else with her and Innovation with a different friend.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next total solar eclipse holiday in 2017 in the USA.
mbmbmbmbmb
Innovation is one of my favorite games to lose.

Our latest few games have been 3-way ties until someone has taken the win.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
E Thomas
United States
Gresham
Oregon
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Take it from me, do not make her play it! My wife nearly killed me after "making" her play this 3 times and now she won't play anything that says Chudyk on the box.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justus
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
wavedog98 wrote:
Take it from me, do not make her play it! My wife nearly killed me after "making" her play this 3 times and now she won't play anything that says Chudyk on the box.


I would generally agree with this statement, but if his gf likes RFtG (
BTW,GtR>RFtG) which is in this universe of games AND his gf dislikes it due to a common misconception of many initial players of Innovation, it seems worth a try.

No guarantee you won't get the same result in the end, but at least she should be able to acknowledge its not just a luck fest.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robb Effinger
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
mb
If you didn't get past Age 5, you didn't see half the game - it's easy to believe that scoring/score stealing cards are OP if you've only played the first 5 ages, since they're the only way to win in the first 5 ages!

But once you start seeing how good some of the 8s and 9s are, you'll also see how cards that let you tech up are also good. Another interesting thing might be to note how it's one thing to get the cards that let you score/steal.. it's another thing to be able to use them. If your opponent has a better board than you (more symbols/splays), then you can't demand anything of them... and they can also piggy-back on your attempts to jump ahead.

As someone said above, Innovation is very much a game of finding a strategy/card that's effective, and just using it as much as possible. Which means it's your opponent's goal, when you have a more effective card on the table, to stop it from being effective. You have something that lets you score? Great, they should go looking for something to steal the score. They get that card? Fine, you should stop scoring, and go find more symbols to turn it off, or go get a tech lead so that you can score more effectively than they can steal. Or go find something that steals their card that is stealing your score pile. Or covers it up. There are lots of answers to every particular card (go browse the forums for this game, and you'll find a lot of different "X card is OP!" threads, for many different values of X)... you just need to play the game enough to know what the answers are and where to go looking for them.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Persin
msg tools
dchamp wrote:
try going to innovation.isotropic.org

much faster to set up and maybe she will like it better..


Just played it there, thanks for advice!

It was great, close game, but in the end other guy won since he teched up faster, then with it, slowed me, and won. He didn't bother with points early game at all.

I will recommend to my gf we play it maybe over internet. It feels a bit easier, since info is better displayed, and you immidiately know how much of something enemy has, and you have easier time reading enemy cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ackmondual
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a card that lets you "viciously" take cards from your opponent's score pile into yours. I had such a card, and when it was neutralized, somebody joked that they can "now play the game" laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.