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Of Dreams & Shadows» Forums » Rules

Subject: A few questions/uncertainties regarding the rules rss

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Léan -
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First off, we love the game. Our first play through was a great success (in terms of enjoyment, but not so much in terms of the end result ).

We played the game with 2. One of us chose Selene and the other one picked Brom. Granted, that might not have been the wisest choice in terms of diversity in stats ( shake ), but we just went for it.

Our villain was Morrigan.

1. The first problem we ran into was refreshing the Hand (=shop). Either the tests for 'stuff' were either on stats we both didn't possess in large quantities, or we simply didn't have enough money (yet). There's a line in the rules where it says that if you take out a card from the Hand, you can replace an additional one. We never managed to acquire a single card, and therefore we couldn't exchange any cards either. We were wondering: can you replace a card if you FAIL an acquisition?

2. How exactly do you use Spells in combat? Once you have used them, do you discard them? Or simply tap them or turn them face down to indicate you used them that combat round, and refresh them at a later stage so you can use them again?

3. One of us played Brom as a Champion. It says that while you are on any space, you can test Insight against a score of 8 to acquire one Spell from the Hand. What exactly does that mean? Do you literally take one Spell and attach it to your Champion, or do you still need to meet the requirements that are listed on the card to acquire them?
 
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Gordon Alford
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Valkyre wrote:
First off, we love the game. Our first play through was a great success (in terms of enjoyment, but not so much in terms of the end result ).

We played the game with 2. One of us chose Selene and the other one picked Brom. Granted, that might not have been the wisest choice in terms of diversity in stats ( shake ), but we just went for it.

Our villain was Morrigan.

1. The first problem we ran into was refreshing the Hand (=shop). Either the tests for 'stuff' were either on stats we both didn't possess in large quantities, or we simply didn't have enough money (yet). There's a line in the rules where it says that if you take out a card from the Hand, you can replace an additional one. We never managed to acquire a single card, and therefore we couldn't exchange any cards either. We were wondering: can you replace a card if you FAIL an acquisition?

2. How exactly do you use Spells in combat? Once you have used them, do you discard them? Or simply tap them or turn them face down to indicate you used them that combat round, and refresh them at a later stage so you can use them again?

3. One of us played Brom as a Champion. It says that while you are on any space, you can test Insight against a score of 8 to acquire one Spell from the Hand. What exactly does that mean? Do you literally take one Spell and attach it to your Champion, or do you still need to meet the requirements that are listed on the card to acquire them?


I hope you're enjoying the game! Though I'd highly recommend pairing one of those champions with another that is more adept with combat. Here are the answers to your questions (great ones by the way):

1) Yes, you can discard one card and restock if you fail the attempt to acquire a resource card. It wasn't explicitly written in the rules, but you can always discard a card from the Hand whether you succeed or fail an attempt to acquire a resource.

2) Spells are activated during the Action Phase. They require an action to activate and last until the end of the Turn, so if you spend an action to activate a spell like Spirits of Rage or Warding, the benefits last through the Combat and Scenario Phases. It lasts until the beginning of the next Turn. You can then use the spell again the next Turn by spending another action (you do not discard a spell when you activate it).

3) If Brom uses his special ability and passes the Insight test, he can take a spell card from the Hand without paying the costs to acquire it.

Cheers,

Gordon
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Léan -
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Kiamar wrote:
Valkyre wrote:


2. How exactly do you use Spells in combat? Once you have used them, do you discard them? Or simply tap them or turn them face down to indicate you used them that combat round, and refresh them at a later stage so you can use them again?



2) Spells are activated during the Action Phase. They require an action to activate and last until the end of the Turn, so if you spend an action to activate a spell like Spirits of Rage or Warding, the benefits last through the Combat and Scenario Phases. It lasts until the beginning of the next Turn. You can then use the spell again the next Turn by spending another action (you do not discard a spell when you activate it).


Yesterday, we tried our second game with 3 people. We chose Brom, Natasha and Hadrian. As our foe we chose Morrigan again. We lost miserebly again. Before we could do much or build up anything (the Fate track went faster through an event card, if I remember correctly) we were about to be catapulted into Act II. Our friend (3rd player) didn't want to continue playing blush We also did a lot of side quests, which probably wasn't a good idea either. We were wondering if you should do not too many side quests, since your time is really short already. Somehow, it makes me think we are doing something terribly wrong since we, as a combined team, barely have time to even kill one foe and acquire one gear piece for 1 person before we go into Act II.

Anyway.
We still have a question regarding 2. Are Spells considered Resources? We kind of assumed they were, since they are mentioned on page 9, under 'Acquiring Resources': "Also, only Champions that are Spirit-Touched may acquire and use Spells".
And then under 'Using Resources & Stacking Resources' it says that you, and I quote, 'may not stack bonuses from the same type of Resource'.
Here's the thing: if a Spell is a Resource, and you can't stack bonuses of the same Resources, and you Invoke a Spell in the Action Phase and you don't tap them or anything, then why does Brom start off with 2 x Spirit of Rage and Selene with 2 x Warding if you can only use 1 of them? We are a bit confused. So the question is:
Are Spells considered Resources? If so, why do some characters start with 2 identical ones even though they can only use 1 of them? Are there maybe special quests/circumstances/events we simply haven't seen/encountered that allows them to stack at some point? And if Spells aren't Resources, then you can stack them, right? 1 Action Point for each (identical) Spell?

Sorry for being so nitpicky, but we really want to play the game as it was meant to be played, even if the game is supposed to be story heavy. The stories and quests are great btw! cool
 
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Patrick
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Spells are resources, but why do you think the heroes start with two copies each? I played Brom and I'm pretty sure it just said "Spirit of Rage" once on the sheet.
 
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Léan -
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Mosch wrote:
Spells are resources, but why do you think the heroes start with two copies each? I played Brom and I'm pretty sure it just said "Spirit of Rage" once on the sheet.


It didn't specifically say to take just one either. And there were 2, so we took them both
 
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Léan -
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Valkyre wrote:
Mosch wrote:
Spells are resources, but why do you think the heroes start with two copies each? I played Brom and I'm pretty sure it just said "Spirit of Rage" once on the sheet.


It didn't specifically say to take just one either. And there were 2, so we took them both


I was wondering why we took both, and I rechecked the manual. It says, on page 3, under 'Select your Champions': "Each player selects a Champion card and searches the Resource deck for their starting Resource cards."

Cards (plural) and not card. But the plural was probably referring to all the Champions combined then, and not to multiple cards per Champion.
 
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Gordon Alford
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Spells are resources and nobody starts with two identical ones.

You only get one Spirits of Rage card for Brom and one Warding for Selene. The rules don't allow for stacking the same type of resource card, but you can stack bonuses from different types of resource cards.

The game is definitely meant to be challenging, but not to a severe degree. I'd say the win/loss rate for people just starting would be 40/60, but experienced players should actually win the majority of the time.

I noticed you mention that you barely acquired one gear piece. With Natasha, you should be using her special ability as much as possible to gear yourselves up. You may be using up too many actions trying to remove shadow tokens as opposed to acquiring resources. Also, playing with 3 is much more challenging because the game will be set at a 4-Champion difficulty. Have someone play 2 Champs. I recommend Nora or Freya to join your current team setup. Hope that helps and thanks for the compliments on the story.
 
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Léan -
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Kiamar wrote:

I noticed you mention that you barely acquired one gear piece. With Natasha, you should be using her special ability as much as possible to gear yourselves up. You may be using up too many actions trying to remove shadow tokens as opposed to acquiring resources. Also, playing with 3 is more challenging because the game will be set at a 4-Champion difficulty. Have someone play 2 Champs. I recommend Nora or Freya to join your current team setup. Hope that helps.


You can only do 1 Special Action each turn, and we only had 4 turns before Act II. He failed his die roll for acquisition 3 times.

The shadows tokens: we tried to clear every time they came up. We will try to not concentrate on those next time. Plus we will be doing a 4 or 5 player game next time probably.
 
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Gordon Alford
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That seems like some real bad luck with the dice and also losing a turn (there are only a couple of scenarios where that is possible). You're last two games were also definitely played with more challenging setups - Brom and Selene are the least combative at the start; 3 Champs on the board instead of 4. Definitely focus more on arming up in the next game.
 
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Fluid Karma
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Some more questions regarding the first villain, Arawn (and thanks to Gordon for being so active and communicative here, appreciate that a lot!):

- If a foe reaches a capital, what does he do next? Does he stay there for a "monstrous rampage", or does he move on to the next capital? Because, if he would just move one space towards any direction in the next turn, the capital he just left would automatically be "the nearest" again, so he would be supposed to immediately move back to where he came from.

- If the foe stays in the capital once he has reached it, do the players continue to lose 1 willpower every turn where the foe in the capital is not yet defeated?

- Do the players lose additional willpower, when a Death Cultist summons an Undead while already being in a capital? Strictly spoken, the Undead did not "reach" the capital, but was spawned there. Does it make a difference?

- Does the Death Cultist spawn Undeads after each combat phase, even if there has been no combat at all?

- The Hand: Do relic items just take up space and "block" the hand? If I understand correctly, they can only be acquired through scenarios. Do we only get them through a scenario, if they are in the hand at the same time the scenario is completed? Or do we look through the resources deck and get them anyways, if they are not in the hand at that given time?

Beautiful game – thank you very much for taking the time to answer!

 
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Gordon Alford
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Thanks! Arawn is in some ways the most challenging Villain, especially in Act 1. Here are the answers for playing against him:

1) The Foe would stay there until Act 2.

2) Players only lose 1 Willpower every time a Foe reaches a Capital. They don't continually lose Willpower for Foes remaining on a Capital.

3) Good question! Players won't lose additional Willpower for any Foes spawned on a Capital. Otherwise the game would be too difficult.

4) Yes, Death Cultists spawn undead after the Combat Phase in Act 1, even if there was no combat. Make sure to go after them!

5) Relics do indeed take up space in the Hand. You have to decide whether to free up the spot (through the discard rule) or keep it there in the hopes of completing a required Scenario. The Scenario will explicitly state whether you can pick up a Relic only from the Hand or whether you can look through the Resource deck. Anton's special ability can also be used to try and acquire Relics in the Hand if he is on a Hollows space.

cheers,

Gordon

Fluidkarma wrote:
Some more questions regarding the first villain, Arawn (and thanks to Gordon for being so active and communicative here, appreciate that a lot!):

- If a foe reaches a capital, what does he do next? Does he stay there for a "monstrous rampage", or does he move on to the next capital? Because, if he would just move one space towards any direction in the next turn, the capital he just left would automatically be "the nearest" again, so he would be supposed to immediately move back to where he came from.

- If the foe stays in the capital once he has reached it, do the players continue to lose 1 willpower every turn where the foe in the capital is not yet defeated?

- Do the players lose additional willpower, when a Death Cultist summons an Undead while already being in a capital? Strictly spoken, the Undead did not "reach" the capital, but was spawned there. Does it make a difference?

- Does the Death Cultist spawn Undeads after each combat phase, even if there has been no combat at all?

- The Hand: Do relic items just take up space and "block" the hand? If I understand correctly, they can only be acquired through scenarios. Do we only get them through a scenario, if they are in the hand at the same time the scenario is completed? Or do we look through the resources deck and get them anyways, if they are not in the hand at that given time?

Beautiful game – thank you very much for taking the time to answer!

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Fluid Karma
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Thank you very much for your explanation! We played it the hard (wrong) way and obviously lost the game very early... But we will try again this weekend!
 
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Sebastian Beck
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Another question:

The following situation:

There are two Foes on one space and two Champions on the same space.
The Champions decide to fight together against one Foe.

Do they have to defend against both Foes then?

Or do you only defend against the Foes you have attacked before?
 
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Markus Weihrauch
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Kiamar wrote:
[q="Valkyre"]
2) Spells are activated during the Action Phase. They require an action to activate and last until the end of the Turn, so if you spend an action to activate a spell like Spirits of Rage or Warding, the benefits last through the Combat and Scenario Phases. It lasts until the beginning of the next Turn. You can then use the spell again the next Turn by spending another action (you do not discard a spell when you activate it).


Pity... missed this forum thread or parts of it. So a spell can only activated once per round/turn, yes?

Then I have something to fix in my next video... we really need new rules cool
 
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